Rule Change To Allow Religious Headgear...
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19-05-2017, 09:47 AM
RE: Rule Change To Allow Religious Headgear...
@SYZ

What proof to you have that these girls are Muslim fundamentalist exactly? More importantly, how do you define a Muslim fundamentalist from a Muslim moderate or even a cafeteria Muslim. Personnaly, I would say that a Muslim fundamentalist is a litteralist, views his religion as the only legitimate one, is bigoted toward all non-fundamentalist Muslim, believes in a rigorous application of the Sharia, including the hisbah. Those girls are not because they are going against the Sharia and mingle with non-Muslims. Looking like a fundamentalis (or even a very religious person), doesn't make you so.

The Jeddah United Sports company (those who gve those girls those uniforms) is a new creation in 2003 to promote sport and physical acitvity for women. The creation of this company and the formation of the vey first women's sport team in Saudi Arabia and other countries of the Midde East was a massie victory of women's rights against the religious conservatives. As of now, the existence of those teams are constantly threatenned by fundamentalists. You are showing signs that women's rights are starting to improve again in the Middle East after 40 years of regression and calling it a threat. The hijab is in no way a sign of fundamentalism (of religiosity or cultural pride, yes). Women's right have always been supported by actions made in opposition to normative gender roles and insitutionnal discrimination. That's what those team represent.

Someone saying ''I am a Muslim, and don't you forget it!'' isn't a fundamentalist. It's just a person proud of his origin and religion and its completly acceptable unless it's followed with ''and I am way superior than you because of it.''

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19-05-2017, 11:20 AM
RE: Rule Change To Allow Religious Headgear...
(19-05-2017 09:47 AM)epronovost Wrote:  Someone saying ''I am a Muslim, and don't you forget it!'' isn't a fundamentalist. It's just a person proud of his origin and religion and its completly acceptable unless it's followed with ''and I am way superior than you because of it.''

Even if followed by that statement, I would say. I mean our friend Syz is clearly superior to these kids. Why shouldn't they be allowed to think they're superior to him? Christ if we take this to it's logical conclusion we can all end up wearing a Mao suit and call it freedom.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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19-05-2017, 04:15 PM
RE: Rule Change To Allow Religious Headgear...
(16-05-2017 03:40 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(16-05-2017 03:18 PM)Dr H Wrote:  After working so diligently to remove these various -- predominately Christian -- religious exemptions from the law, why do we now seem to be so busily working to create a whole new set of exemptions for Muslims?

There's a huge difference between repealing a blue law and allowing a headscarf. One is a religious minority pushing their view on others, the other is a religious minority expressing themselves. How the fuck is this so difficult?

How is a religious minority putting up a cross where it can be seen any different from a religious minority insisting that members be allowed to wear special clothing, different from everyone else, and specific to their religion, in public competition?

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19-05-2017, 04:21 PM
RE: Rule Change To Allow Religious Headgear...
(16-05-2017 03:43 PM)epronovost Wrote:  @Dr H

Because we must start from further away with Muslim than with Christian. first we need to create and foster a dialogue in an environment that suffer from bouts of xenophobia, sometime associated with racism. Than, we can start to make meaningfull cultural exchanges. Finally, secularisation is something we can aspire to.

That would be a good point -- if it were true that there had never been any Muslims or Muslim communities outside of predominantly Muslim nations until recently.

But that's not the case. Certainly in America, there have been Muslims here since before the US was an independent country. And there have been Muslim communities in the US since the late 19th century.

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19-05-2017, 04:23 PM
RE: Rule Change To Allow Religious Headgear...
(16-05-2017 05:05 PM)epronovost Wrote:  Islamist fundamentalist girls aren't allow to play basket ball in a league. They aren't allow to play with non Muslim too. These girls are doing both, thus fundamentalism is ebbing away thanks to this measure. They aren't home, away from people different then them, doing activity allowed to girls.

They weren't being barred from playing so long as they dressed similar to all the other girls who were playing.

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19-05-2017, 04:26 PM
RE: Rule Change To Allow Religious Headgear...
(16-05-2017 05:26 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Our culture here is strong enough to withstand the "threat" presented by people wanting to wear -- yikes! -- different clothing.

Fair enough.

Our culture here is also strong enough to withstand the "threat" presented by people who want to put a cross on a hillside. Certainly the cross never gave me any burning desire to suddenly become Christian. Yet a select group of people fought for 33 years to have it taken down.

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19-05-2017, 04:34 PM
RE: Rule Change To Allow Religious Headgear...
(19-05-2017 09:47 AM)epronovost Wrote:  Someone saying ''I am a Muslim, and don't you forget it!'' isn't a fundamentalist. It's just a person proud of his origin and religion and its completly acceptable unless it's followed with ''and I am way superior than you because of it.''

Come now: virtually every religion has as one of its central tenets the premise that IT is the correct path to the Truth, and all other religious views are wrong. If they did not, there wouldn't be multiple religions.

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19-05-2017, 06:07 PM
RE: Rule Change To Allow Religious Headgear...
(19-05-2017 04:26 PM)Dr H Wrote:  
(16-05-2017 05:26 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Our culture here is strong enough to withstand the "threat" presented by people wanting to wear -- yikes! -- different clothing.

Fair enough.

Our culture here is also strong enough to withstand the "threat" presented by people who want to put a cross on a hillside. Certainly the cross never gave me any burning desire to suddenly become Christian. Yet a select group of people fought for 33 years to have it taken down.

Was that cross on federal land and maintained by federal funds?

I'm going to assume that only an asshole would care about a cross on private property.

So the federal government has a girls basketball league paid for entirely by tax dollars?


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19-05-2017, 07:20 PM
RE: Rule Change To Allow Religious Headgear...
(19-05-2017 04:21 PM)Dr H Wrote:  That would be a good point -- if it were true that there had never been any Muslims or Muslim communities outside of predominantly Muslim nations until recently.

But that's not the case. Certainly in America, there have been Muslims here since before the US was an independent country. And there have been Muslim communities in the US since the late 19th century.

Most of htose communities either disappeared or are extremely well integrated. These are recent arrivals. The processes thus start again with each new wave of arrivals. The current one, by far the largest started in the 70's when Middle East got increasingly unstabble. I would also like to point out that most Muslims in America before WWI came here as slaves and were forced to convert. The first mosque built in america was in 1929. Less than a hundred years ago.

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19-05-2017, 07:33 PM
RE: Rule Change To Allow Religious Headgear...
(19-05-2017 07:48 AM)SYZ Wrote:  
(16-05-2017 05:05 PM)epronovost Wrote:  Islamist fundamentalist girls aren't allow to play basket ball in a league...

Yes, they are:

[Image: saudi-womens-basketball-team.jpg]


Quote:They aren't allow to play with non Muslims too...

Yes, they are:

[Image: 9ab357982797db10fe1290fbcd6b8ab5.jpg]



Quote:These girls are doing both, thus fundamentalism is ebbing away thanks to this measure...

No, it's not. Allowing Muslim girls to wear confrontational religious paraphernalia in a secular society is in actuality allowing them to support fundamentalism. If, on the other hand, fundamentalism was in fact truly ebbing away, then they'd obviously be choosing not to wear their religious rags.

Religious fundamentalism is and always has been supported by dress, iconography, art, architecture, literature etc. The mere fact that these girls choose to wear their hijabs is, in effect, saying to the world "I am a Muslim, and don't you forget it!"

Is there a link for the story about these images?


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