Rule Change To Allow Religious Headgear...
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11-05-2017, 08:38 AM
RE: Rule Change To Allow Religious Headgear...
Thought I'd post this.

"Seminole Student sent home to cut hair, parents say it's against his religion."





What about this little boy's hair? It could get caught in the chain link fence at school. A girl could dip it in the ink well. ....um perhaps not the ink well.... but it could get tangled up in the swings. Yes

On the other hand, it appears Seminole Indian males are only allowed to have long hair at football games. Rolleyes

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Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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11-05-2017, 08:52 AM
RE: Rule Change To Allow Religious Headgear...
(10-05-2017 03:46 PM)Dr H Wrote:  [

Quote:Up until the late 70ies, it was still illegal for a married woman to open a bank account without a written permit by her husband and he could approach his wifes boss to get her sacked if he felt like her job was interfering with her domestic duties.
Yes, that was the situation in many European countries to the later 70ies. So lets keep the bar a little bit lower.
I'll take your word for it that this was true in parts of Europe. It wasn't in the US -- my grandmother had her own business and bank account that my grandfather didn't even know about for years.

And she never played basketball wearing a wimple. Smile

Bullshit. My grandmother who was born in 1921, couldn't get a bank account on her own. Then after she did get one -- her older brother had to be on it with her, after she married my grandfather's name was just added.

She was considered a "user" but never the account owner until the rules changed. She couldn't get a loan either. When they bought their house in San fransisco in the early 50s, her name was left off the title.

Most women not of means were precluded from having loans or accounts.


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11-05-2017, 12:45 PM
RE: Rule Change To Allow Religious Headgear...
(11-05-2017 12:45 AM)morondog Wrote:  It is?
Yeah, it is. The fact that. allegedly, "christian women didn't play basketball at all" at some undefined place and time, really has nothing to do with making religious exemptions to public policy at a particular place, in a secular country, here and now.

Quote:So the fact that these Muslim kids can play basketball for the first time is not something worthwhile? After all it's the reason they made the rule change in the first place.
Where were they not being allowed to play basketball?
The issue was wearing the hijab while playing -- and who was saying that they HAD to wear a hijab while playing?

Quote:Oh but let's have a big ol' cry about favouring one religion over another because we allowed the Muslims to wear a fucken headscarf Rolleyes
<shrug> Clearly you don't understand civil rights law. If you treat someone differently due to their membership in a protected class (in this case, religion), you are engaging in discrimination, under current civil rights law. It doesn't matter if the different treatment is to their disadvantage or to their advantage, it is still discrimination. And when a public or private entity incorporates exceptional treatment for a particular group within it's policies, it is engaging in what is know as institutionalized racism.

Quote:Like I said, once you're prescribing how people dress to make a political point you might as well go the whole hog and prescribe what are allowed beliefs too. How dare they be Muslim in a public place.
It's not a matter of making a political point; it's a matter of assuring equitable treatment for everyone.

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11-05-2017, 12:57 PM
RE: Rule Change To Allow Religious Headgear...
(11-05-2017 08:52 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(10-05-2017 03:46 PM)Dr H Wrote:  I'll take your word for it that this was true in parts of Europe. It wasn't in the US -- my grandmother had her own business and bank account that my grandfather didn't even know about for years.

And she never played basketball wearing a wimple. Smile

Bullshit. My grandmother who was born in 1921, couldn't get a bank account on her own. Then after she did get one -- her older brother had to be on it with her, after she married my grandfather's name was just added.

She was considered a "user" but never the account owner until the rules changed. She couldn't get a loan either. When they bought their house in San fransisco in the early 50s, her name was left off the title.

Most women not of means were precluded from having loans or accounts.

You can call "bullshit", if you like; I could do the same -- except I'm willing to take your word for it that you're describing a true situation for a particular person, place, and time.

As am I: both my grandmother (dad's mom), and my mom had independent, personal bank accounts that did not require a spouse's cosignature to obtain. (In Pennsylvania and New York state, respectively.) Indeed, mom had hers for years before she married my dad -- she had a career (in the insurance industry), and her own apartment, and everything... imagine that.

Not sure when grandma opened her account for her seamstress business; she may have already been married at that point. But I'm dead sure about mom, since I went through her papers when she passed away four years ago. I've got the documents.

"Bullshit," indeed.

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11-05-2017, 12:58 PM
RE: Rule Change To Allow Religious Headgear...
(11-05-2017 12:45 PM)Dr H Wrote:  The issue was wearing the hijab while playing -- and who was saying that they HAD to wear a hijab while playing?

So would you be OK with them wearing base caps? Borsalinos? Helmets?

It's just their traditional garb you take issue with because it doesn't fit your own worldview. They should adapt to what you find acceptable. That's the truth of the matter.

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11-05-2017, 01:02 PM
RE: Rule Change To Allow Religious Headgear...
(11-05-2017 08:38 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Thought I'd post this.

"Seminole Student sent home to cut hair, parents say it's against his religion."

What about this little boy's hair? It could get caught in the chain link fence at school. A girl could dip it in the ink well. ....um perhaps not the ink well.... but it could get tangled up in the swings. Yes

On the other hand, it appears Seminole Indian males are only allowed to have long hair at football games. Rolleyes

Oh, we'll happily screw Native Americans; we've been doing it for 500 years.
Especially if they don't happen to belong to one of the religions currently in favor.

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11-05-2017, 02:26 PM (This post was last modified: 11-05-2017 02:33 PM by morondog.)
RE: Rule Change To Allow Religious Headgear...
(11-05-2017 12:45 PM)Dr H Wrote:  And when a public or private entity incorporates exceptional treatment for a particular group within it's policies, it is engaging in what is know as institutionalized racism.
ORLY? Giving people something they want is now racism? Whereas imposing some ideal version of dress that you prefer is equitable treatment. Gotcha. ETA: I missed this the first time, not only is it racism but it's *institutionalised* racism Laugh out load Because I'm apparently both a racist and an institution Rolleyes

Quote:
Quote:Like I said, once you're prescribing how people dress to make a political point you might as well go the whole hog and prescribe what are allowed beliefs too. How dare they be Muslim in a public place.
It's not a matter of making a political point; it's a matter of assuring equitable treatment for everyone.
By the state being some kind of control-freak who tells people what to wear.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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11-05-2017, 02:39 PM
RE: Rule Change To Allow Religious Headgear...
Dr H. I get your point, I agree that it's special treatment if you restrict it to Muslims only, so yes, I would myself prefer if everyone is allowed their dress of their choice. Maybe they would be. I know many cricketers in UK and South Africa of Sikh origin play while wearing a turban. An example is a guy called Harbajan Singh. They're good cricketers, and if they weren't allowed to wear their turban they'd just turn around, say fuck you, and not play. Now. These guys would be disadvantaged in that as skilled professional cricketers, they are losing out on wage earning opportunities because of their religion. Tell me, is it more discriminatory/racist to tell them they can't wear their turban "in the name of being fair to everyone", or to just be pragmatic, realise it's not a big deal, and let them wear it?

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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11-05-2017, 03:54 PM
RE: Rule Change To Allow Religious Headgear...
(11-05-2017 08:52 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(10-05-2017 03:46 PM)Dr H Wrote:  [

I'll take your word for it that this was true in parts of Europe. It wasn't in the US -- my grandmother had her own business and bank account that my grandfather didn't even know about for years.

And she never played basketball wearing a wimple. Smile

Bullshit. My grandmother who was born in 1921, couldn't get a bank account on her own. Then after she did get one -- her older brother had to be on it with her, after she married my grandfather's name was just added.

She was considered a "user" but never the account owner until the rules changed. She couldn't get a loan either. When they bought their house in San fransisco in the early 50s, her name was left off the title.

Most women not of means were precluded from having loans or accounts.

YES!!! ^^^ What Mom's said. Yes!

My mother couldn't buy a car without my father's signature. She couldn't have her own bank account. And this was in the 1960's for shit sakes.

People get all verklempt these days over the feminist movement today, but jesus christ, they've forgotten the crap women have had to put up with. It reminds me of the vaccine denial movement. People forget the past, they forget children died of all sorts of horrible diseases before vaccines came along. People just forget the past. They have to be reminded.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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11-05-2017, 04:18 PM
RE: Rule Change To Allow Religious Headgear...
(11-05-2017 12:45 PM)Dr H Wrote:  Where were they not being allowed to play basketball?

How old are you? Tongue My mother wasn't allowed to do all sorts of sports when she was a girl. Girls were too fragile and it might disturb their ability to have children. When my older sister was in high school she played basketball in PE but the rules were that there were 6 girls on each team. The thinking was the girls were too delicate to handle a rough and tumble 5 on 5 basketball.

Here are some of the other rules from Wikipedia. And I can vouch that these are correct because my sister experienced these very restrictions.

1. Teams have six players each instead of five; three "forwards" and three "guards".
2. Only forwards are allowed to shoot the ball. Forwards must stay in their teams' frontcourt (the side of the court they shoot from) and guards must stay in their team's backcourt. For example, Team A's forwards would be on the left side of the court with Team B's guards on defense. Team B's forwards are on the right side of the court with Team A's guards. Thus, forwards play only offense and guards play only defense.
3. In some forms, unlimited dribbling is not allowed. Once in possession of the ball, players may dribble the ball up to two times; at that point, the player must shoot (if a forward) or pass to a teammate. Both forwards and guards may handle the ball.
4. There is no three-point line; all field goals are worth two points. (The three-point line would not be added to the collegiate rules until the 1980s, by which point six-on-six was mostly phased out.)


Women weren't allowed to compete in any sort of traditional marathon run until the 1970's. It was thought that the uterus would fall out. Shocking I'm serious. Hahaha. Here's the first lady that did it....in 1967, no less.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathrine_Switzer

Now, of course, this doesn't have much to do with religion but indirectly it kinda does. Women's reproductive organs were considered too delicate and valuable. Making babies, and LOTS OF THEM! was essentially their role in life and much of this was based on the Bible--be fruitful and multiply, crap.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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