Run The Gauntlet
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11-03-2013, 10:04 AM (This post was last modified: 11-03-2013 10:09 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Run The Gauntlet
Nice cut and paste job. Nice to see you're SO honest as to give credit to the source.
And the formula for penicillin, and the ability to do open heart surgery ?
Anyone can speculate about anything. You have proven precisely NOTHING. ANy "poetry" can be interpreted ANY way. Just desperation by people who NEED to have their faith suppored by weak crap. The Greeks knew just as much. You REALLY are desperate aren't you ? They were NO more advanced than anyone else. If they were, they nwould have defeated all their enemies. Oops. They were dragged into exile. The person MOST responsible for Hebrew culture, and it's existence was King Artaxerxes, who ALLOWED them to return from exile, and told them how they were going to live, and sent Ezra back with the letter DECREEING who would be in charge. (BTW, it's very obvious you went to a VERY fundi school, where they were desperate to prove themselves correct. No scholar talks in these terms, except the VERY VERY fundie nut cases).

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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11-03-2013, 10:05 AM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
Well done, you clearly researched this thoroughly and didn't just copy/paste the first Google result. Drinking Beverage

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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11-03-2013, 10:09 AM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
(08-03-2013 01:33 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:The agenda was to set themselves up as all-important leaders of man. Can't be emperor or king, well, why not be the top dog of a religion.

The individual agenda was self-promotion and personal wealth, respect, or power (or all the aforementioned). The organization didn't have an agenda, except that which best suited the agenda of the individual leader. Sure, some leaders have also cared about their fellow man, some of them have been greatly altruistic. But not all of them. And even the good ones were also self-serving.
2/3 of the NT is written by Paul, who was at the top of his rabbinical game and studies under Gamaliel (Hillel). Kings and top dog wrote much of the OT also...
Quote:That's not the point. Many people, including atheists, will gladly tell you that there are good points, good morals, good stories, etc., in the bible. Nobody says the bible is all bad. However, many people tell you that slavish devotion to it is all bad. Many people tell you that delusional, thoughtless, devotion to a religion created by men, for their own purposes, is all bad, even if their core book has a few good things in it.

That's the point.
Absolutely true, if the religion isn't. Agreed.

As an aside, one thing I keep coming back to in my explorations of the other side (holding my bias to a side and assuming the Bible is wrong and etc.) is how ALL the Bible authors, all 40 of them, are believed to have the same errors and in the same ways; all speaking about persecution, all speaking about righteousness in the same ways--here's BB constantly saying the Bible is wholly a product of its culture--that would make the Bible culture immutable for the length of the authorship of the Bible. Rather impressive.
Why did they have the same errors in the same ways? 'Cause they're all fucking nutbags. Big Grin

Sane people recognize sequential time. When you cannot count on C being properly after B, that's not being sane; yet is a conditional artifact of kicking it with the Eternal.

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11-03-2013, 10:33 AM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
Quote:Nice cut and paste job. Nice to see you're SO honest as to give credit to the source.
And the formula for penicillin, and the ability to do open heart surgery ?
Anyone can speculate about anything. You have proven precisely NOTHING. ANy "poetry" can be interpreted ANY way. Just desperation by people who NEED to have their faith suppored by weak crap. The Greeks knew just as much. You REALLY are desperate aren't you ? They were NO more advanced than anyone else. If they were, they nwould have defeated all their enemies. Oops. They were dragged into exile. The person MOST responsible for Hebrew culture, and it's existence was King Artaxerxes, who ALLOWED them to return from exile, and told them how they were going to live, and sent Ezra back with the letter DECREEING who would be in charge. (BTW, it's very obvious you went to a VERY fundi school, where they were desperate to prove themselves correct. No scholar talks in these terms, except the VERY VERY fundie nut cases).
And I was proved correct in my assumption that typing from memory or researching deeply would be wasted on you because rather than look at a single item you just pushed them all to the side. For something more original, from me, I'll say this--I find the book of Proverbs endlessly fascinating not only for its scientific accuracies but for its excellent predictors of all types of human and relational behaviors. Amazing stuff. As for the exilic period, we have 1) 70 years' captivity predicted 2) 490 years between the coronation of the first king and the deposition of the last king, with one year in seven accounted for to make the land lie fallow for 70 years 3) the 70 years fulfilled 4) the 360 * 360 * 7 prophecy mentioned elsewhere fulfilled in May 1948 CE. No, the only way the non-fundies can be troubled by these prophecies if they bother to research them is to suggest later dates for authorship despite the fact that Solomon, David, Jechonias, etc. are verified in archaeology outside the Bible as real people. How convenient! Of course, the Jews were more advanced beyond their contemporaries--the 600 Bible laws contain over 200 "recipes" for good health...
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11-03-2013, 10:43 AM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
(11-03-2013 10:33 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Of course, the Jews were more advanced beyond their contemporaries--the 600 Bible laws contain over 200 "recipes" for good health...

One of those "recipes" for good health was to keep a menstruating woman in solitary confinement for a week. While it's true that touching her blood would not be sanitary, the technology for maxi pads was well within their reach. Instead, God called these women "unclean" and treated them like such a word would suggest.

Another "recipe" involved a very similar treatment of mildew... that didn't work. It didn't work then, and wouldn't work now. Antiseptic liquids that could clean mildew had been discovered by the Egyptians, but God shunned those methods for treating a mildew-ridden cloth like it was crawling with bed bugs. There's a good reason nobody (not even the Jews) follow these same methods for dealing with mildew (or women).

Why didn't you notice these examples? Because of your confirmation bias. You only notice the evidence that supports your conclusion and ignore the parts that don't.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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11-03-2013, 10:44 AM (This post was last modified: 11-03-2013 11:17 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Run The Gauntlet
(11-03-2013 10:33 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:Nice cut and paste job. Nice to see you're SO honest as to give credit to the source.
And the formula for penicillin, and the ability to do open heart surgery ?
Anyone can speculate about anything. You have proven precisely NOTHING. ANy "poetry" can be interpreted ANY way. Just desperation by people who NEED to have their faith suppored by weak crap. The Greeks knew just as much. You REALLY are desperate aren't you ? They were NO more advanced than anyone else. If they were, they nwould have defeated all their enemies. Oops. They were dragged into exile. The person MOST responsible for Hebrew culture, and it's existence was King Artaxerxes, who ALLOWED them to return from exile, and told them how they were going to live, and sent Ezra back with the letter DECREEING who would be in charge. (BTW, it's very obvious you went to a VERY fundi school, where they were desperate to prove themselves correct. No scholar talks in these terms, except the VERY VERY fundie nut cases).
And I was proved correct in my assumption that typing from memory or researching deeply would be wasted on you because rather than look at a single item you just pushed them all to the side. For something more original, from me, I'll say this--I find the book of Proverbs endlessly fascinating not only for its scientific accuracies but for its excellent predictors of all types of human and relational behaviors. Amazing stuff. As for the exilic period, we have 1) 70 years' captivity predicted 2) 490 years between the coronation of the first king and the deposition of the last king, with one year in seven accounted for to make the land lie fallow for 70 years 3) the 70 years fulfilled 4) the 360 * 360 * 7 prophecy mentioned elsewhere fulfilled in May 1948 CE. No, the only way the non-fundies can be troubled by these prophecies if they bother to research them is to suggest later dates for authorship despite the fact that Solomon, David, Jechonias, etc. are verified in archaeology outside the Bible as real people. How convenient! Of course, the Jews were more advanced beyond their contemporaries--the 600 Bible laws contain over 200 "recipes" for good health...

All bunk. All cultures had rules for good health. The Hebrews lived no longer or any better than any contemporary culture. If they did, they would have used the "special knowledge" for use as a trade commodity. The Japaneese and Chineese had more advanced cultures, and were FAR more enlightened about cleanliness and disease than the Hebrew AT THE TIME. Were they bathing 3-5 times per day ? Nope. Almost never. Did they know about germs, or the germ theory of disease, or leprosy ? Nope. No one was buying/trading special "Hebrew knowledge" of anything. They mostly IMPORTED things from Arabia. They GAVE Arabia nothing "unique" from their culture, or to anywhere else. Nor were they known as astronomers or astrologers like other cultures were. You have no proof they did or could. You persist in your fallacy of "prophesy as prediction". All bunk. All cultures had fables, and proverbs. As for "scientific" accuracies, let's see the "scientific" studies, and the scientific METHOD proposed or mentioned, that PRODUCED your proverbial conclusions. If you cannot produce a mention of the METHOD, you CANNOT say they were "scientific" anything. Just wives tales, and common "wisdom" Nothing different or unique. They did not even have a word for "science", much less know what that might mean, or employ any METHOD to arrive at a conclusion. Apparently YOU also have no clue what the scientific METHOD is. You are a huge JOKE, SexuallyPleasingJebus. All you have done is succeed in proving yet again, you religious nut-cases are desperate, and uneducated. No one questions there were kings. The fact that archaeology has verified a few to be correct proves nothing about anything, or who said what, or that any claaims about them were true. In fact archaeology has proven the way the Bible tells the story is exaggerated in the extreme. It's has also proven there were inaccuracies in the lineages talked about in various places, yet you only pick out the stuff to support your desperate attempt to say they were unique or different. You have failed.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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11-03-2013, 10:50 AM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
(11-03-2013 10:33 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  No, the only way the non-fundies can be troubled by these prophecies if they bother to research them is to suggest later dates for authorship despite the fact that Solomon, David, Jechonias, etc. are verified in archaeology outside the Bible as real people.

Archaeology simply doesn't work that way -- proving parts of a story doesn't make the whole story true. It has been said many times before that, if we could find archaeological evidence that New York City really existed, that wouldn't make Spider-Man a true story. It can act as positive evidence, but not proof.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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11-03-2013, 11:26 AM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
Wow, PJ, you win. Your persistence has paid off.

Hey, everyone, listen up. Archaeologists have found an ancient building. That building is mentioned in the Bible. Therefore, every word of the Bible is true, nothing in the Bible is made up, God is real, start worshiping today or burn in hell forever.

What?

Some of the bible is historically, geographically, and archaeologically proven to be wrong? Oh, well, it's only a few things proven to be wrong, the rest of it is still proven by that ancient building I mentioned. Therefore, God is real, worship or burn in hell.

What?

Archaeologists have found an ancient building. That building is mentioned in the Quran. Therefore, every word of the Quran is true, nothing in the Quran is made up, Allah is real, start worshiping today or burn in hell forever.


What do we do? We have two ancient buildings that prove every word in the Bible and the Quran are both true, God and Allah exist, we must worship them both or burn in hell forever?

Crap.

Now I guess I must sit on the fence and wait and see who wins, God or Allah. I could use some cotton candy and peanuts, and lots of beer; this one's probably going into extra innings.

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein
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11-03-2013, 11:50 AM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
I understand the conundrum that P>Q does not imply that Q means P is true. I further understand that Not P>Not Q does mean Not Q > Not P:
No God>no miracles = Miracles demonstrate God exists. Miracles are a part of Christians almost daily lives. Obeying the scriptures provides every type of blessing and the converse for born again Christians. As for the above, unclean meant "not admitted to tabernacle grounds area for worship" and not "solitary confinement". Of course our poster makes it a "woman" thing forgetting that a man could not have a seminal emission, either. Purity and blood regulations remind the [future] worshipper of the purity and atoning blood of the Messiah. There were rules to distinguish mildew from mold and leprosy, also. The sophistication of the Bible and its distinguishing from the Qu'ran goes deeper as well.
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11-03-2013, 01:13 PM (This post was last modified: 11-03-2013 01:18 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Run The Gauntlet
(11-03-2013 11:50 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  I understand the conundrum that P>Q does not imply that Q means P is true. I further understand that Not P>Not Q does mean Not Q > Not P:
No God>no miracles = Miracles demonstrate God exists. Miracles are a part of Christians almost daily lives. Obeying the scriptures provides every type of blessing and the converse for born again Christians. As for the above, unclean meant "not admitted to tabernacle grounds area for worship" and not "solitary confinement". Of course our poster makes it a "woman" thing forgetting that a man could not have a seminal emission, either. Purity and blood regulations remind the [future] worshipper of the purity and atoning blood of the Messiah. There were rules to distinguish mildew from mold and leprosy, also. The sophistication of the Bible and its distinguishing from the Qu'ran goes deeper as well.

Now, all you have to tell is tell us what they were. The "atoning blood" of the messiah was crap. The rules and laws NEVER mention that that was why they were put in place until the "peshers" of it it was cooked up hundreds of years later. Blood and animals with cloven hoofs were unclean because they carried disease, it had NOTHING to do with any messiah. Numbers and Leviticus do not mention it. They were said AT THE TIME to be abominations, because they were ALREADY culturally "unclean", and "abominations". The prophesy thing is a fallacy. It's called (in history) "presentism". Most Jews at the time were not even looking for a messiah until many hundreds of years later. This dude is SO ignorant of this culture, he might as well be writing a fairy story. Oh wait, He IS writing a fairy story. The job of the messiah was NOT to atone for sin. It was to restore the political nation of Israel, which even the apostles expected as I have shown, and which has NEVER happened. So to claim Yeshua ben Josef is the messiah is patently false. It was conveniently changed, so to make it appear he had done something ELSE.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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