Run The Gauntlet
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 6 Votes - 2 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
11-03-2013, 01:28 PM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
Quote: It was to restore the political nation of Israel, which even the
apostles expected as I have shown, and which has NEVER happened.


Weeeell, it kind of happened. We do have Israel after all. But the person who was the ultimate cause of that was Hitler, not Jesus. Was Hitler the Messiah? O.o

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Phaedrus's post
11-03-2013, 02:15 PM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
Quote:Now, all you have to tell is tell us what they were. The "atoning blood" of the messiah was crap. The rules and laws NEVER mention that that was why they were put in place until the "peshers" of it it was cooked up hundreds of years later. Blood and animals with cloven hoofs were unclean because they carried disease, it had NOTHING to do with any messiah. Numbers and Leviticus do not mention it. They were said AT THE TIME to be abominations, because they were ALREADY culturally "unclean", and "abominations". The prophesy thing is a fallacy. It's called (in history) "presentism". Most Jews at the time were not even looking for a messiah until many hundreds of years later. This dude is SO ignorant of this culture, he might as well be writing a fairy story. Oh wait, He IS writing a fairy story. The job of the messiah was NOT to atone for sin. It was to restore the political nation of Israel, which even the apostles expected as I have shown, and which has NEVER happened. So to claim Yeshua ben Josef is the messiah is patently false. It was conveniently changed, so to make it appear he had done something ELSE.
There was an intense anticipation of Messiah. There were anti-Messiahs all over the map then. I'm sure you've heard of Bar Kochba, for example... you are not learned in Talmud and etc. and most of Jesus's squabbles with the Pharisees stem from the oral, later written, Talmud. Even the expectation that Messiah would appear atop the Temple precipitated "the high place" where Satan brought Christ and from where he said "Throw yourself down and the angels" will catch you refers to the Talmudic expectation that Messiah would descend to the temple courts from its steeple... listen, I understand all the theories and nonsense you're learning... I have a four-year Religion degree from a secular university... but you must understand, these same scholars are anti-biblical in every sense, pro-abortion, pro-fornication outside marriage, pro-liberal (over 90% of secular academics voting for Clinton and Obama twice, etc.)... there's no mystery that secular universities are filled with Atheist religious scholars (where Christianity and Judaism are concerned with the exception of devout Jews who teach Hebrew language studies)... in my college, only one T.A. was a believer... just be careful lest the blind lead the blind into a pit... you're so quick to quote scholastic authorities, are your professors correct about every philosophical and scientific pretext they teach, always? Think for yourself...!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-03-2013, 02:20 PM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
(11-03-2013 02:15 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Think for yourself...!

Priceless!

Weeping

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Aseptic Skeptic's post
11-03-2013, 02:32 PM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
[Image: train-wreck-o.gif]

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes TheBeardedDude's post
11-03-2013, 04:17 PM (This post was last modified: 11-03-2013 07:15 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Run The Gauntlet
(11-03-2013 02:15 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:Now, all you have to tell is tell us what they were. The "atoning blood" of the messiah was crap. The rules and laws NEVER mention that that was why they were put in place until the "peshers" of it it was cooked up hundreds of years later. Blood and animals with cloven hoofs were unclean because they carried disease, it had NOTHING to do with any messiah. Numbers and Leviticus do not mention it. They were said AT THE TIME to be abominations, because they were ALREADY culturally "unclean", and "abominations". The prophesy thing is a fallacy. It's called (in history) "presentism". Most Jews at the time were not even looking for a messiah until many hundreds of years later. This dude is SO ignorant of this culture, he might as well be writing a fairy story. Oh wait, He IS writing a fairy story. The job of the messiah was NOT to atone for sin. It was to restore the political nation of Israel, which even the apostles expected as I have shown, and which has NEVER happened. So to claim Yeshua ben Josef is the messiah is patently false. It was conveniently changed, so to make it appear he had done something ELSE.
There was an intense anticipation of Messiah. There were anti-Messiahs all over the map then. I'm sure you've heard of Bar Kochba, for example... you are not learned in Talmud and etc. and most of Jesus's squabbles with the Pharisees stem from the oral, later written, Talmud. Even the expectation that Messiah would appear atop the Temple precipitated "the high place" where Satan brought Christ and from where he said "Throw yourself down and the angels" will catch you refers to the Talmudic expectation that Messiah would descend to the temple courts from its steeple... listen, I understand all the theories and nonsense you're learning... I have a four-year Religion degree from a secular university... but you must understand, these same scholars are anti-biblical in every sense, pro-abortion, pro-fornication outside marriage, pro-liberal (over 90% of secular academics voting for Clinton and Obama twice, etc.)... there's no mystery that secular universities are filled with Atheist religious scholars (where Christianity and Judaism are concerned with the exception of devout Jews who teach Hebrew language studies)... in my college, only one T.A. was a believer... just be careful lest the blind lead the blind into a pit... you're so quick to quote scholastic authorities, are your professors correct about every philosophical and scientific pretext they teach, always? Think for yourself...!

Only AFTER apocalypticism arose. Very late in Jewish history, by SOME. You have no way of knowing how many, or how "intense" it was. Just more nonsense. SexuallyPleasingJebus is full of crap, and NEVER provides any historical proof or references. Just baseless assertions, and no references. Very desperate. There is no "satan", as Elaine Pagels has demonstrated. Just childish crap. So now SPJT is actually trying to tell us "satan" took Jebus somewhere. He's finally exposed himself as the fool he is. And guess what ? Simon bar Kochba failed, just like all the others, including ben Josef .. and you just exposed your own lie. He was a POLITICAL leader, not an "atoner" by blood. Blood had nothing to do with it. I don't believe you have a religion degree. as your level of ignorance is so great. If a god wants "atonement", that means it CHANGES. A changing god is not eternal, and REQUIRES space-time. That means it's not god. On the contrary SexuallyPleasingJebusTroll, I suggest you start thinking AT ALL. You came here, not to discuss anything. Only to dump your particular brand of ignorant right-wing American Fundamentalism on us, and pretend it represents the Christian view of anything. You're a nut-job. Nothing you say is supported, even in main stream religious circles. Have you converted even one person here ? Nope. All you've done is show people how insane another religious crazy person is. (And BTW, if you had even bothered ever to read any of the links, you would know I know something about the Talmud).

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Bucky Ball's post
11-03-2013, 04:26 PM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
(08-03-2013 08:20 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:Either we take the biblical history as truth or we do not accept any historical proof. Nice false dichotomy.
Not at all. You're misunderstanding my point, which is... Since we accept many historical events from documents only, without empirical evidence, we must move forward to admit that we have a confirmatory bias regarding metaphysical historical events. For example, we could say there are no miracles today but still be scientific in allowing for miracles to have occured at some earlier point in time and perhaps be natural phenomena we don't quite understand, yet. Now we have to go back to the texts, again without a confirmatory bias. Do you agree?

Quote:Instead why do you offer equal evidence. Give us an actual picture of god, video of god, and a forum account for god. Oh wait that standard is way to high for god, yet a human being can meet it with ease. Is your god willing but not able?
A loaded question to be sure. But that's fine. The last time I checked, the Bible was writen by 40 authors and runs over 2,000 pages in English versions. You have less evidence for the existence of any ancient historical figure you care to name. The issue is you are currently demanding video evidence and not textual evidence. What's the difference between you watching TV all day and those of us who have attended university classes and read books (besides literacy)? You have a classic of literature in front of you but you want a Gangnam Style video, right?
The question is not loaded, equal evidence for god is what we are asking for.

It seems as though beyond emotional feelings, auditory hallucinations, god cannot show him self. Yet you say he has a book.

But if you want to go that route. I have educational records, employment records, medical records, bank records, tax records, internet records, many photographs, and videos.

Additionally I know that for a fact I have over 100 people that verify my existence, independent of my own records, that I've met and made friends with over my lifetime.

Member of the Cult of Reason

The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
-Baron d'Holbach-
Bitcion:1DNeQMswMdvx4xLPP6qNE7RkeTwXGC7Bzp
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes fstratzero's post
11-03-2013, 04:41 PM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
(11-03-2013 11:50 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  I understand the conundrum that P>Q does not imply that Q means P is true. I further understand that Not P>Not Q does mean Not Q > Not P:
No God>no miracles = Miracles demonstrate God exists. Miracles are a part of Christians almost daily lives. Obeying the scriptures provides every type of blessing and the converse for born again Christians. As for the above, unclean meant "not admitted to tabernacle grounds area for worship" and not "solitary confinement". Of course our poster makes it a "woman" thing forgetting that a man could not have a seminal emission, either. Purity and blood regulations remind the [future] worshipper of the purity and atoning blood of the Messiah. There were rules to distinguish mildew from mold and leprosy, also. The sophistication of the Bible and its distinguishing from the Qu'ran goes deeper as well.


Please stop throwing out red herrings. Did you forget what point I was arguing against?

You made the claim that the bible had several "recipes" for good health, and I pointed out a couple of the silliest. Arguing against the meaning of "unclean" does not defend the bible's poor ideas on good health. The "purity and atoning blood" argument also does not defend the idea that this was a recipe for good health. Pointing out that mildew and mold are different from leprosy doesn't make an argument for these regulations a recipe for good health, nor does it address my deeper point of its ineffectiveness.

You believe in an omnipotent god that could have taught his believers about the germ theory of disease, but didn't. We atheists see good reason to think that the Jews didn't have a connection to an all-knowing god who could have given them insights beyond what the nations around them had.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Starcrash's post
12-03-2013, 12:23 AM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
Of course included in the ritual purification for most things, (all ?), the priests who wrote the texts included the pay-off for themselves. An offering was required, and the priests got their cut, just like today.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-03-2013, 02:33 AM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
(11-03-2013 02:15 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:Now, all you have to tell is tell us what they were. The "atoning blood" of the messiah was crap. The rules and laws NEVER mention that that was why they were put in place until the "peshers" of it it was cooked up hundreds of years later. Blood and animals with cloven hoofs were unclean because they carried disease, it had NOTHING to do with any messiah. Numbers and Leviticus do not mention it. They were said AT THE TIME to be abominations, because they were ALREADY culturally "unclean", and "abominations". The prophesy thing is a fallacy. It's called (in history) "presentism". Most Jews at the time were not even looking for a messiah until many hundreds of years later. This dude is SO ignorant of this culture, he might as well be writing a fairy story. Oh wait, He IS writing a fairy story. The job of the messiah was NOT to atone for sin. It was to restore the political nation of Israel, which even the apostles expected as I have shown, and which has NEVER happened. So to claim Yeshua ben Josef is the messiah is patently false. It was conveniently changed, so to make it appear he had done something ELSE.
There was an intense anticipation of Messiah. There were anti-Messiahs all over the map then. I'm sure you've heard of Bar Kochba, for example... you are not learned in Talmud and etc. and most of Jesus's squabbles with the Pharisees stem from the oral, later written, Talmud. Even the expectation that Messiah would appear atop the Temple precipitated "the high place" where Satan brought Christ and from where he said "Throw yourself down and the angels" will catch you refers to the Talmudic expectation that Messiah would descend to the temple courts from its steeple... listen, I understand all the theories and nonsense you're learning... I have a four-year Religion degree from a secular university... but you must understand, these same scholars are anti-biblical in every sense, pro-abortion, pro-fornication outside marriage, pro-liberal (over 90% of secular academics voting for Clinton and Obama twice, etc.)... there's no mystery that secular universities are filled with Atheist religious scholars (where Christianity and Judaism are concerned with the exception of devout Jews who teach Hebrew language studies)... in my college, only one T.A. was a believer... just be careful lest the blind lead the blind into a pit... you're so quick to quote scholastic authorities, are your professors correct about every philosophical and scientific pretext they teach, always? Think for yourself...!
Re

"these same scholars are anti-biblical in every sense, pro-abortion,
pro-fornication outside marriage, pro-liberal (over 90% of secular
academics voting for Clinton and Obama twice, etc.)... there's no
mystery that secular universities are filled with Atheist religious
scholars"

Well isn't this interesting! Some of the very features that define a healthy, natural, rational society are considered as negatives by this brainwashed bible thumping thickhead. And... for some reason he presumes atheists here agree with his prejudices!

This guy has grown up in some sort of closeted society detached from the secular world, yet accuses atheists of not thinking for themselves.

He waxes lyrical about his borish book, yet quite clearly knows nothing about the primitive, superstitious, power hungry people who penned it.

I'm blown away! I'm horrified at the thought that there could be communities of people who think like this. I'm so glad I live in Australia where this sort of bone-headed rhetoric never gets an airing.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Mark Fulton's post
12-03-2013, 09:25 AM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
Quote:Only AFTER apocalypticism arose. Very late in Jewish history, by SOME. You have no way of knowing how many, or how "intense" it was. Just more nonsense. SexuallyPleasingJebus is full of crap, and NEVER provides any historical proof or references. Just baseless assertions, and no references. Very desperate. There is no "satan", as Elaine Pagels has demonstrated. Just childish crap. So now SPJT is actually trying to tell us "satan" took Jebus somewhere. He's finally exposed himself as the fool he is. And guess what ? Simon bar Kochba failed, just like all the others, including ben Josef .. and you just exposed your own lie. He was a POLITICAL leader, not an "atoner" by blood. Blood had nothing to do with it. I don't believe you have a religion degree. as your level of ignorance is so great. If a god wants "atonement", that means it CHANGES. A changing god is not eternal, and REQUIRES space-time. That means it's not god. On the contrary SexuallyPleasingJebusTroll, I suggest you start thinking AT ALL. You came here, not to discuss anything. Only to dump your particular brand of ignorant right-wing American Fundamentalism on us, and pretend it represents the Christian view of anything. You're a nut-job. Nothing you say is supported, even in main stream religious circles. Have you converted even one person here ? Nope. All you've done is show people how insane another religious crazy person is. (And BTW, if you had even bothered ever to read any of the links, you would know I know something about the Talmud).
First the Talmud is a titanic-sized collection of documents, of which you and I know some. I'm pointing out what must be missing from your syllogism. Second, Bar Kochba did not claim to be an atoner nor Messiah but Rabbi Akiva did on Bar Kochba's behalf... just as today, Menachem Schneerson didn't pronounce his Messiahship but Lubavitchers who were high up in his movement did. The Jewish tradition, of course, is a forerunner or annuniciator, like John the Baptist. You may, if you wish, look into Talmudic and other traditions expecting from a parsing of Isaiah and elsewhere a Messiah-ben-Yosef to suffer and a Messiah-ben-Dawid to rule--both expectations fulfilled in Jesus's two advents or so our claims go... you may further admit the NT is an ancient source text(s) that mentions up to four other Messianic pretenders, two of them named by Gamaliel (Hillel)... and you can Google "ancient Messianic expectation" and so on... I apologize for not stating the above originally. I try to keep it pithy here and not waste my time or yours. However, we're all moving away from the main point, not to convert you and not to waste time other than in learning from each other... can anyone here prove their existence empirically... not what they believe their birth name to be from documents that may have been falsified... not a video that proves they might exist on some un-proven plane of existence...? Can anyone provide empirical evidence that they exist? If you think you can, I'd have a response for you... thanks!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: