Run The Gauntlet
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19-03-2013, 01:10 PM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
Quote:Present your proof or shut the fuck up.
I've been presenting evidence on various threads for weeks now. As for PROOF, you'll have to earn by attempting to be intellectually honest with the challenge as presented. Clearly, Chas, you're anxious to hear it, though. You are not far from God's Kingdom!
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19-03-2013, 01:12 PM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
Quote:PleaseJesus,

If I accept your premise that I may not exist, will you accept that your god may not exist either?
A false syllogism since I had no premise on this thread or others denying your existence or mine, I merely asked for evidentiary proof of existence. However, yes, if *we* don't exist, a God likely does not either. And this is precisely the sort of pondering that often comes shortly before depression and/or suicide attempts. We exist.
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19-03-2013, 01:16 PM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
(19-03-2013 01:10 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:Present your proof or shut the fuck up.
I've been presenting evidence on various threads for weeks now. As for PROOF, you'll have to earn by attempting to be intellectually honest with the challenge as presented. Clearly, Chas, you're anxious to hear it, though. You are not far from God's Kingdom!

You said proof, not evidence. Produce it.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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19-03-2013, 02:07 PM (This post was last modified: 19-03-2013 02:22 PM by Heathen.)
RE: Run The Gauntlet
(19-03-2013 01:12 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:PleaseJesus,

If I accept your premise that I may not exist, will you accept that your god may not exist either?
A false syllogism since I had no premise on this thread or others denying your existence or mine, I merely asked for evidentiary proof of existence. However, yes, if *we* don't exist, a God likely does not either. And this is precisely the sort of pondering that often comes shortly before depression and/or suicide attempts. We exist.


I can see where a devout believer could fall into depression or attempt suicide at this thought. On the other hand, as an atheist I have no problem at all with this idea.

These mental gymnastics are fun, but in the end I'm quite happy to live my life under the following two assumptions: 1/We probably exist. 2/God probably doesn't exist.
Experience has shown me that these assumptions are 100% reliable. It sure would be interesting to see evidence that would cause me to reconsider either one of them, but I find it so extremely unlikely that I don't spend much time thinking about it.

Anyway, getting back to your challenge:
Quote:I'll prove to anyone on this forum that God exists--and go one better, Jesus is the Messiah and God, if they can prove that they exist.

You seem to firmly believe that nothing can in fact be proven with 100% accuracy. You therefore, using your own arguments, cannot prove that god exists either. In order for you to you prove the existence of god, you would have to accept that there are some things can in fact be proven. Clearly, you don't. And so if you firmly believe that proving the first part of your challenge is impossible, it means that it is also impossible for you to prove the second. Therefore, you cannot prove the existence of god and your challenge is just an interesting puzzle that proves nothing. Just another classic attempt to reverse the onus of proof. If you are feeling depressed or suicidal there is help for you on this forum. Wink

So, now that I'm all caught up here you can address Chas' question. Carry on.
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19-03-2013, 02:19 PM (This post was last modified: 19-03-2013 02:42 PM by morondog.)
RE: Run The Gauntlet
(19-03-2013 02:07 PM)Heathen Wrote:  If you are feeling depressed or suicidal there is help for you on this forum. Wink

... That could be taken in a completely different way than I suspect you intended Angel

Edit: I suppose I better clarify that anyone who is feeling suicidal should take those feelings seriously and get help. Goddamn flippant remarks... now I feel like a tool...
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19-03-2013, 09:08 PM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
That was intended as a humorous reply to post #603 where PleaseJesus seemed to have agreed to the possibility that god "may" not exist.

Quote:A false syllogism since I had no premise on this thread or others denying your existence or mine, I merely asked for evidentiary proof of existence. However, yes, if *we* don't exist, a God likely does not either. And this is precisely the sort of pondering that often comes shortly before depression and/or suicide attempts. We exist.

Perhaps I should have been more clear.
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19-03-2013, 10:03 PM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
(19-03-2013 02:19 PM)morondog Wrote:  .. now I feel like a tool...
Well, you won't have to look far Big Grin

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20-03-2013, 08:43 AM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
Quote:You said proof, not evidence. Produce it.
Um, read post #1 of this thread again. You're not paying attention at all for someone with dozens of posts to this thread, Chas. Again, though, I commend your eager desire and that of others to hear my proof for Jesus Christ as God. It's very encouraging to hear that from Atheists and Agnostics! Thanks.
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20-03-2013, 08:55 AM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
Quote:You seem to firmly believe that nothing can in fact be proven with 100% accuracy. You therefore, using your own arguments, cannot prove that god exists either. In order for you to you prove the existence of god, you would have to accept that there are some things can in fact be proven. Clearly, you don't. And so if you firmly believe that proving the first part of your challenge is impossible, it means that it is also impossible for you to prove the second. Therefore, you cannot prove the existence of god and your challenge is just an interesting puzzle that proves nothing. Just another classic attempt to reverse the onus of proof. If you are feeling depressed or suicidal there is help for you on this forum.
I find it assumptive for you to tell me what I believe. I never said or implied that nothing can be proven with 100% accuracy or that nothing can be proven. That would be proving a negative. Wink What I have encountered are very lame responses to a challenge. "Look, here's me on a YouTube video!" Wow. Here we are, wondering about the empirical nature of reality and metaphysics. Well, if we had a YouTube video of God or a person, that proves existence, since everything on the Internet is true. I have excellent proof and also, evidence, for God, and Jesus as God. But I won't apologize for making freethinkers think about it with sincerity or deeply. And if we were in a debate, "Resolved: We do not exist..." showing a video to empirically attempt to prove one's existence would be laughed out of a university auditorium, whether at a seminary or Yale.
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20-03-2013, 09:07 AM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
(19-03-2013 08:59 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:You ended something with "Period." It must mean it's a good counter-argument. Wait...Anyways, I'm not missing the point. It doesn't matter if we're not talking about my made-up (and pretty damn fabulous) lunar being. If you're claiming that I can't even prove my own existence, and trying to apply it to an argument for god's existence, then I should be able to retest your hypothesis with my pink moon man (and with Bigfoot, bug-eyed Martians, UFOs, unicorns, and so on) and have the same results. Besides, I saw a tornado rip out our fence when I was a child and even if I do not exist in the form that I believe I'm existing in, I am sentient in some manner of speaking for even dreaming up this world. Although if I'm just dreaming my life and acting as if it's real, I would be less poor and my apartment wouldn't be freezing right now. EDIT: And at least I can look on the weather channel, decide I want to chase a tornado, and go do it. Finally, if my post is "typical of dozens on this thread alone," it's because you've answered nothing and your hypothesis/argument is severely flawed and we're pointing it out to you over and over again.
**
Quote:If you're claiming that I can't even prove my own existence, and trying to apply it to an argument for god's existence{/quote]Never said that, implied it or claimed it, merely made a 1-2 proposition. 1 is yet to be addressed in any meaningful sense because nearly everyone here says, "I'm perhaps dreaming this existence or in a Matrix", just as you do above, which is tantamount to asking me as the challenger to accept a non-materialist existence outside this reality for which there is no empirical evidence!
Further, and this is philosophically intriguing, you're asking me to accept you may be "dreaming", that is, NOT AWARE of the actual nature of reality. You're firming Pascal's wager for yourself when you do so, aren't you? Smile
Not really. Your premise was to prove that I exist, that when you type what you're typing and I reply, it's really me. The problem is that even if we're not actually having this exchange in the way we think we are, we're still having it on some level. In a dream, in a matrix, I don't care. And of course you're trying to use this to prove god's existence. You may not have "implied" it, but you certainly said it: (from the very first page, in your exact words) "I'll prove to anyone on this forum that God exists--and go one better, Jesus is the Messiah and God, if they can prove that they exist." So if I can't prove I exist (which I can--I'll Skype you, send you my personal information, meet you in person, with some determined proof between us that will be identifiable, be it a passphrase or a book or a printed screenshot of this post before I post it, and I'm still more provable than god)...if for some reason I can't prove my existence, you're just going to walk away without a single mention of how this must mean we're unable to make a judgment on god's existence? Oh sure.

Keep your rosaries out of my ovaries, and your theology out of my biology.
"If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people." --Dr. House
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