Run The Gauntlet
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22-03-2013, 07:25 AM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
Quote:God sent Christ to be martyred. He can't react after that martyrdom because his omniscience told him in advance just exactly what was going to happen before he sent Christ. Therefore, it was all pre-planned on his part - the fact that he would send Christ, the fact that Christ would be martyred, and what he was going to do about it, all pre-planned. So what you're really saying is that God chose preaching, period.

Fine.

But it's obviously not working out. 5 out of 7 humans are not responding well to that preaching. More, if you count the fact that even Christian preachers are preaching different things - they can't even get their own interpretations of God's perfect book straight.
I think most people, not a select few, are going to Heaven. I hear your concern but yours is a straw man argument to me.

Quote:I'm trying hard to respect you.

We've been over this already. Sure a youtube video to a college or university for the proof of ones one existence might be laughed at. However due to the nature of the public, and the internet as a whole. I simply can not give you personal information.
And how would "personal information" prove that you EXIST in REALITY?

Quote:So was God proven to exist somewhere in the past 64 pages or was PJ just jizzing snake oil everywhere?
Read the first post again and see how your community has failed. You'll have your answer then.

Quote:I check this thread every 15 pages or so... Keep up the good work PJ. At this rate, you'll make it to troll heaven no problem.
Yet another rational, reasonable, evidentiary-filled post from a free "thinker". Fantastic! Mocking and telling inane jokes demonstrates your pure and clear instability and insecurity on this issue.

Quote:...or troll hell!
Yet another genius on the loose. Look, folks, I do respect you and know that most Atheists are HIGHLY intelligent. Why not display that on this forum? Whining about YouTube videos rather than addressing the philosophical, ontological and empiricist views on this issue of existence and the nature of proof and evidence are beneath you. Show some class!
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22-03-2013, 07:36 AM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
(22-03-2013 07:25 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:God sent Christ to be martyred. He can't react after that martyrdom because his omniscience told him in advance just exactly what was going to happen before he sent Christ. Therefore, it was all pre-planned on his part - the fact that he would send Christ, the fact that Christ would be martyred, and what he was going to do about it, all pre-planned. So what you're really saying is that God chose preaching, period.

Fine.

But it's obviously not working out. 5 out of 7 humans are not responding well to that preaching. More, if you count the fact that even Christian preachers are preaching different things - they can't even get their own interpretations of God's perfect book straight.
I think most people, not a select few, are going to Heaven. I hear your concern but yours is a straw man argument to me.

Straw man argument? Really? Do you just call it that so you can dismissively ignore it (does it make you uncomfortable)?

So you aren't a Christian then? You don't believe that we're all born sinners and that the only way to achieve salvation is to accept Christ?

OK, to be fair, I recognize that some Christians don't believe in original sin, hell, damnation, as much as others. But really, you all call yourselves "Christian" and yet get 10 random Christians in a room and you'll have 10 different ways to interpret the (perfect, flawless) Holy Bible - how can any one of you actually believe that your random interpretation is more valid than anyone else's?

If you truly believe that all of us atheists, heathens, and apostates are NOT going to hell because we don't accept Jesus, then you're in the Christian minority - if I were you, I would worry about that since most of your fellow "Christians" are pretty sure that all of us, including YOU, are going to hell for getting it wrong.

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein
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22-03-2013, 07:56 AM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
I prefer the contention that I do not exist. Gwynnie did it! It goes like this - I hear stories of people (back when I lived in the desert) who would see Gwyneth Paltrow on TV, and become overcome with giggles, remembering my antics in expressing my ridiculous love of the girl. And that's the way I see it.

Last night I was getting my Ancient Aliens fix on xfinity, and PleaseJesus didn't exist. Only Giorgio and his crazy hair, and crazier ideas. PJ's existence is thus seen as contingent to visiting this site. So if the argument is, as it appears to be, that "I am, therefore god," it is fail for the Christian god. Contingency isn't omni-anything. Tongue

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22-03-2013, 08:04 AM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
Dear PJ,

Are you ever going to prove God's existence, or are you just going to ask unreasonable questions about our existence. We have provided you evidence. It's not the evidence that's the problem, you are simply making a standard that is impossible to meet. How can we prove we exist in Reality? Well, first you have to prove a reality exists, and that is impossible.

I have a nasty feeling that this whole thread is just going to be you not presenting your "proof" for the sole reason that we haven't proved we exist. Which any reasonable person would have agreed long ago that we have proved it.

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22-03-2013, 09:06 AM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
Quote:Are you ever going to prove God's existence, or are you just going to ask unreasonable questions about our existence. We have provided you evidence. It's not the evidence that's the problem, you are simply making a standard that is impossible to meet. How can we prove we exist in Reality? Well, first you have to prove a reality exists, and that is impossible.

I have a nasty feeling that this whole thread is just going to be you not presenting your "proof" for the sole reason that we haven't proved we exist. Which any reasonable person would have agreed long ago that we have proved it.
To quote Mister Spock, "Fascinating. [One eyebrow raised high.]" You could replace your statements about "exist" with God and get, "Hey, 3-percenters. We've provided evidence long ago that reasonable people would agree on for the existence of God!" However, I digress. NO, you haven't met any standard as a class or group. Over half the freethinkers on this thread have said that not only do they struggle with proving existence but that it doesn't matter because "there might be a Matrix somewhere". Of course, they have no empirical evidence for this alternate reality, but accuse Christians of lacking empirical evidence for Jesus's divinity via a typical and hypocritical double standard. And as for having a "nasty feeling," fix it by offering proof of evidence. But if you DARE to say you CANNOT offer PROOF of existence, then stop telling Christians they can't offer PROOF of God's existence, PLEASE. At least redact to "I cannot prove I exist, but I can offer reasonable evidence that I probably exist. Can you show evidence that God likely exists or exists?" Then be quiet and listen and learn. "Live long and prosper. Peace and long life."
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22-03-2013, 09:09 AM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
Quote:I prefer the contention that I do not exist. Gwynnie did it! It goes like this - I hear stories of people (back when I lived in the desert) who would see Gwyneth Paltrow on TV, and become overcome with giggles, remembering my antics in expressing my ridiculous love of the girl. And that's the way I see it.

Last night I was getting my Ancient Aliens fix on xfinity, and PleaseJesus didn't exist. Only Giorgio and his crazy hair, and crazier ideas. PJ's existence is thus seen as contingent to visiting this site. So if the argument is, as it appears to be, that "I am, therefore god," it is fail for the Christian god. Contingency isn't omni-anything.
1) What argument appears to be what?! I think therefore God is?! No, I haven't made an argument yet. Feel free to address Post #1 in this thread, please. 2) Ms. Paltrow exists and I can prove it.
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22-03-2013, 09:09 AM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
PJ I don't understand this excercise. If I accept that I can't prove that I exist. How will that get me closer to Jesus. Won't it push me further away. I thought you were here to try and save me. I'm really not feeling the love brother.
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22-03-2013, 09:11 AM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
Quote:Straw man argument? Really? Do you just call it that so you can dismissively ignore it (does it make you uncomfortable)?

So you aren't a Christian then? You don't believe that we're all born sinners and that the only way to achieve salvation is to accept Christ?

OK, to be fair, I recognize that some Christians don't believe in original sin, hell, damnation, as much as others. But really, you all call yourselves "Christian" and yet get 10 random Christians in a room and you'll have 10 different ways to interpret the (perfect, flawless) Holy Bible - how can any one of you actually believe that your random interpretation is more valid than anyone else's?

If you truly believe that all of us atheists, heathens, and apostates are NOT going to hell because we don't accept Jesus, then you're in the Christian minority - if I were you, I would worry about that since most of your fellow "Christians" are pretty sure that all of us, including YOU, are going to hell for getting it wrong.
AS, you're making this overcomplicated--it's not many interpretations, it's two:

1. "Exclusivist" - Coined term meaning God saves only via hearing of the gospel.

2. "Inclusivist" - Term meaning God can save apart from the gospel.

PJ is an inclusivist. And if you're sincerely worried about the fate of humanity, join me in improving people's lives now by good works, and their futures also, in the gospel. Thanks.
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22-03-2013, 09:11 AM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
(22-03-2013 09:09 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:I prefer the contention that I do not exist. Gwynnie did it! It goes like this - I hear stories of people (back when I lived in the desert) who would see Gwyneth Paltrow on TV, and become overcome with giggles, remembering my antics in expressing my ridiculous love of the girl. And that's the way I see it.

Last night I was getting my Ancient Aliens fix on xfinity, and PleaseJesus didn't exist. Only Giorgio and his crazy hair, and crazier ideas. PJ's existence is thus seen as contingent to visiting this site. So if the argument is, as it appears to be, that "I am, therefore god," it is fail for the Christian god. Contingency isn't omni-anything.
1) What argument appears to be what?! I think therefore God is?! No, I haven't made an argument yet. Feel free to address Post #1 in this thread, please. 2) Ms. Paltrow exists and I can prove it.
But it's a contingency argument, I done said. Tongue

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22-03-2013, 09:13 AM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
Quote:PJ I don't understand this excercise. If I accept that I can't prove that I exist. How will that get me closer to Jesus. Won't it push me further away. I thought you were here to try and save me. I'm really not feeling the love brother.
Get you closer to Jesus? What?! I'd settle for humbling you so you'd stop telling Christians they're delusional, and telling them all to STFU and so on. If you can't prove you or I exist in 65 pages of thread, that should get you closer to humility and to stop using the P-word against every Theist you meet. Humility will get you closer, of course, to Jesus Christ and His Kingdom. "For God resists the proud, but rewards the humble." LLAP. PALL.
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