Run The Gauntlet
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25-03-2013, 02:10 PM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
(25-03-2013 12:01 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:This is where you're wrong and you know it. You've set up a false comparison here.

1. You want proof over the internet? Everyone reading this knows that there is no proof anyone on the internet can give you that will meet any kind of skeptical requirements as proof.
2. Nobody on this forum is omnipotent. While all of us here are unable to give you proof, we all must acknowledge that if your god is real, then he's omnipotent and fully capable of revealing himself, perfectly, to every person on the planet in any way he chooses.

So you've created a false situation here that we cannot meet and presume to say that your "invisible Deity" is subjected to the same rules that we are and is likewise unable to prove his existence.

Really?

Your god is that weak?

I daresay, why worship a god who lacks the power to even manifest himself? How can you assume that a god who cannot manifest himself is somehow capable of creating an entire universe?

Because, if you assume that he CAN manifest himself, omnipotently, perfectly, then this whole thread is a waste of all of our time and you know it.
I would ABSOLUTELY agree with you except for a Christian concept of will. If you're a Calvinist like KC, than God's omnipotence includes NOT revealing Himself in a saving way to certain people. If you're a free will person like me, then your free will can damage any variety of relationships and revelation of love from spousal to parental to business to... God. Have you never been in this situation? "Go talk to Bill!" "Screw Bill, I KNOW if I make the first move (second move, third, fourth) he'll refuse me." Atheists "meet the Bill" in this case. God knows exactly who will trust Him, and reveals Himself to those persons.


That's as stupid as all the rest of this thread.

What you're saying is wrong on two levels:

1. I absolutely would accept, trust, revere, worship, love, an existing god who created me and wants me to be happy. So saying that god knows I that I won't trust him and therefore doesn't reveal himself to me is presumptive, incorrect, and arrogant to the point of hubris.
2. You're saying that God created me, with my brain, my inclination to analytic skepticism, knowing in all his omniscience that I would use this brain to look for him, but he's hiding from me, leading me astray with fake science and falsified evidence, all of which is designed to fool me (and others) into disbelieving him so that we can burn for eternity all according to his plan. All of which was known to him before he ever made me, so obviously he made me for no other reason than to burn for eternity. This is the god you love and trust and worship? A petty tyrant god who creates billions of people for no other reason that to torture them for all of eternity?

Any god capable of creating a universe would know both of the the things I just described and would be above such stupidity.

No, the only ones capable of such stupidity are the deluded believers who never question, never examine, never wonder how their magical god could be as stupid as they think he is. Answer: he couldn't be.

So stop applying your own limitations to this special magical deity of yours - he should be much more magnificent than you define confine him to be.

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein
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25-03-2013, 02:18 PM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
Quote:So . . . where is it this "testable, verifiable proof?"
"The Kingdom of God is within you." That is, the potential for salvation if you test and verify. A born again Christian by definition was converted as a sentient person, not baptized as a baby into a faith. I tested, I verified, I... is... saved. The door is open to you also.
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25-03-2013, 02:47 PM (This post was last modified: 06-04-2013 12:48 AM by Doctor X.)
RE: Run The Gauntlet
******

Those who administer and moderate in order to exercise personal agenda merely feed into the negative stereotype of Atheism
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25-03-2013, 02:59 PM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
Quote:1. I absolutely would accept, trust, revere, worship, love, an existing god who created me and wants me to be happy. So saying that god knows I that I won't trust him and therefore doesn't reveal himself to me is presumptive, incorrect, and arrogant to the point of hubris.
2. You're saying that God created me, with my brain, my inclination to analytic skepticism, knowing in all his omniscience that I would use this brain to look for him, but he's hiding from me, leading me astray with fake science and falsified evidence, all of which is designed to fool me (and others) into disbelieving him so that we can burn for eternity all according to his plan. All of which was known to him before he ever made me, so obviously he made me for no other reason than to burn for eternity. This is the god you love and trust and worship? A petty tyrant god who creates billions of people for no other reason that to torture them for all of eternity?
1. I didn't say YOU wouldn't seek and find, as a matter of fact, I find you more reasonable and palatable than most of the freetinkerers on this forum put together. 2. Nor did I ever say God misleads anyone with science and falsified evidence, etc. Personally, I abhor Christians who post canards like "the Earth is young, but God made it look old" which makes God a liar. No, I would say there are different evidences abounding and that interpretation varies. I myself was a devout Evolutionist and an Agnostic with strong Atheist leanings before conversion. Anyone may be saved. And frankly, God delights in saving people in unusual circumstances. Again, most of the top apologists of recent years, Zacharias, McDowell, Lewis, etc. were Atheists before conversion. 3. I would never mistake a skeptical, inquiring mind and a scientific mindset for the desire of God to communicate on a love/relationship plane. Yes, even die-hard skeptics can be saved and often, are.
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25-03-2013, 03:14 PM (This post was last modified: 26-03-2013 03:36 AM by fstratzero.)
RE: Run The Gauntlet
(25-03-2013 02:18 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:So . . . where is it this "testable, verifiable proof?"

"The Kingdom of God is within you." That is, the potential for salvation if you test and verify. A born again Christian by definition was converted as a sentient person, not baptized as a baby into a faith. I tested, I verified, I... is... saved. The door is open to you also.
[Image: YVFraLO.jpg]

If the kingdom if god is inside me. Then why does this kingdom choose to deny god?

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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26-03-2013, 01:49 AM (This post was last modified: 26-03-2013 01:54 AM by ClydeLee.)
RE: Run The Gauntlet
(25-03-2013 02:59 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  1. I didn't say YOU wouldn't seek and find, as a matter of fact, I find you more reasonable and palatable than most of the freetinkerers on this forum put together. 2. Nor did I ever say God misleads anyone with science and falsified evidence, etc. Personally, I abhor Christians who post canards like "the Earth is young, but God made it look old" which makes God a liar. No, I would say there are different evidences abounding and that interpretation varies. I myself was a devout Evolutionist and an Agnostic with strong Atheist leanings before conversion. Anyone may be saved. And frankly, God delights in saving people in unusual circumstances. Again, most of the top apologists of recent years, Zacharias, McDowell, Lewis, etc. were Atheists before conversion. 3. I would never mistake a skeptical, inquiring mind and a scientific mindset for the desire of God to communicate on a love/relationship plane. Yes, even die-hard skeptics can be saved and often, are.
Where's your proof of this? Or simpler, What makes you believe that?

Or this for that matter: "God knows exactly who will trust Him"

Also, you seem to have claimed you wanted to approach having others prove they exist in a skeptical way like others here would promote... yet I see you doing nothing of that; you aren't actually doing any testing of the concept or trying to find out if they are true. Plenty of the atheists here and across the world have done that in attempts to find God. They've wanted to be open and trusted God but weren't finding this Kingdom of God inside them... They even took the advice of the bible or others who did have the belief. So why aren't you trying to TEST to see if a person is true. Ask one of those people who gave a video/picture to do something. Ask them to dance around with their thumb on their head and see if it happens. Test them to see if they actual are a real individual and keep going until you can determine if they are a real person or not... by not doing any actual testing, you're not being scientific or skeptical about it; you are being misleading.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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26-03-2013, 02:18 AM (This post was last modified: 26-03-2013 04:11 AM by fstratzero.)
RE: Run The Gauntlet
(25-03-2013 02:18 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:So . . . where is it this "testable, verifiable proof?"

"The Kingdom of God is within you." That is, the potential for salvation if you test and verify. A born again Christian by definition was converted as a sentient person, not baptized as a baby into a faith. I tested, I verified, I... is... saved. The door is open to you also.
Presuppositional bull.

Anyways let's address this fail argument.

Of course god in inside you. It's an imaginary idea, completely dependent on human minds. It tends to reflect the needs, desires, and wants of that mind, and is keen to ignore all other human sufferings to do small personal favors for you. Yet instead of realizing you are just talking to your self, you ascribe these things to something out side of you.

The funny thing is how much it appears that, psychologically speaking, gods resemble imaginary friends perfectly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imaginary_friend

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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26-03-2013, 07:48 AM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
Quote:Where's your proof of this? Or simpler, What makes you believe that?

Or this for that matter: "God knows exactly who will trust Him"

Also, you seem to have claimed you wanted to approach having others prove they exist in a skeptical way like others here would promote... yet I see you doing nothing of that; you aren't actually doing any testing of the concept or trying to find out if they are true. Plenty of the atheists here and across the world have done that in attempts to find God. They've wanted to be open and trusted God but weren't finding this Kingdom of God inside them... They even took the advice of the bible or others who did have the belief. So why aren't you trying to TEST to see if a person is true. Ask one of those people who gave a video/picture to do something. Ask them to dance around with their thumb on their head and see if it happens. Test them to see if they actual are a real individual and keep going until you can determine if they are a real person or not... by not doing any actual testing, you're not being scientific or skeptical about it; you are being misleading.
Nay, I would invite any Atheist here to pick up with me on this. I'll ask some questions, and we'll see there was 1) little or no such testing done in any logical, empirical, scientific manner 2) there is a moral defect that precludes belief since trusting Jesus implies moral humility and the need to repent and change. Sorry! I've spoken with many Atheists since reading the Bible and learning that 1) and 2) are the rule here.
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26-03-2013, 07:53 AM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
Quote:And where is that? Behind the appendix? Wedged in Forel's field H? In other word, no evidence. You basically made a claim without evidence . . . as evidence. I could just as well say that Mila Kunis hot, vagina lubricating passion for My Humble MagNIfIcence is located in [Stop that--Ed.] "me" . . . I was going to write "me."
No, I made a claim without specifying evidence at the time, which is different than making a claim without supporting evidence. Here's your problem, son:

You say there's a lack of proof there is a God and the same for no God. Yet, in a court of Law, if both sides presented evidence, the Christian would begin by presenting the following for evidence of God (none of this is my proof but it stands as evidence regardless):

Ontological, teleological, historical, prophetical, biblical/documentary, other religious evidences, life testimonies, cosmological, young earth, anti-Evolution, revelatory/anecdotal, anthropological, life/words of Christ, etc. evidence for God, etc.

The Atheists then present their evidence that no God exists:

(...............................................................................​...)

And then the Atheists conclude their case by saying, "We don't believe any piece of the evidence the Christians presented, therefore, there must not be/is likely not a God,"
And the judge laughs you out of court.
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26-03-2013, 07:53 AM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
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"Which is more likely: that the whole natural order is suspended, or that a jewish minx should tell a lie?"- David Hume
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