Run The Gauntlet
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08-04-2013, 10:30 AM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
(08-04-2013 09:54 AM)guitar_nut Wrote:  
(08-04-2013 09:24 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  An exceptionally weak argument today. Disproving Muhammed's alleged encounters with a god who was in any way logical is simple and does not require a display of proof of the true divinity.

You've offered nothing in any of your posts that I cannot find in Islam. An exceptional display of cognitive dissonance today. Drinking Beverage

See how PleasyJebusPops just does that ? Never really answers anythng except to assert his Presuppositional stuff, which he exempts from the evidence required for something outside or different than his cult.

If it's SO easy, PleasyJeeby go right ahead and try. But do so from your home computer. Oh that's right, you don't have one, or internet access at home. You just post from work. And make your employer pay for your missionary positionwork. It's a good thing you're not paid by the convert.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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08-04-2013, 11:25 AM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
(08-04-2013 10:30 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(08-04-2013 09:54 AM)guitar_nut Wrote:  You've offered nothing in any of your posts that I cannot find in Islam. An exceptional display of cognitive dissonance today. Drinking Beverage

See how PleasyJebusPops just does that ? Never really answers anythng except to assert his Presuppositional stuff, which he exempts from the evidence required for something outside or different than his cult.

If it's SO easy, PleasyJeeby go right ahead and try. But do so from your home computer. Oh that's right, you don't have one, or internet access at home. You just post from work. And make your employer pay for your missionary positionwork. It's a good thing you're not paid by the convert.

What's ironic is I used a few of his own arguments. Popularity of 'the word,' the divinity of the texts, prophecy, etc. The fact that he immediately dismisses his own arguments is a big fat coffin nail. I've got more evidence for Islam than he'll ever be able to provide for Christianity. I won't be sharing it, however. There's no need; I've won this battle.

Theists like PJ don't realize they do more harm for theism than good. Allah's plan, I'm sure!

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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08-04-2013, 01:01 PM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
Quote:There are many examples where the authors have Jebus saying something that he obviously never could have said, ie the "words, placed in his mouth".
For example the business to Peter, "Upon this rock I will build my church". The word "ecclesia" he would never have used, and there was no such thing as a churchat the time.

But actually the burden is on YOU. They were written so many years later, no one could possibly actually remember what someone said, exactly, evern 40 years later. It's impossible. YOU would have to prove they had a culture where exact transmission of text was verbally done. The Hebrew did not do that, and had no function, (as the Muslims did) for exact verbal transmission.

Paul cooked up "salvation" His letters were written BEFORE the gospels. Duh. Your question is nonsensical.
Again, not here for converts. Saw a stranger trust in Christ this past Thursday, though, while witnessing.

BB, you claim to be intelligent, and you clearly are, but I hope you understand that not only didn't Jesus say, "ecclesia", but most scholars say Greek was not the language He used during His mission.

Sometimes your counter-arguments are further befuddled beyond your arguments...!
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08-04-2013, 01:03 PM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
For the (11th?) time, BB, 1) What is your empirical evidence, not "textual analysis", that dates Paul's writings to after the gospels? I thought all your liberals love late dates for the gospels. == AGAIN, if you place the gospels AFTER Paul, what is Paul quoting from/altering/trying to accomplish? I would say that only one or two epistles predated the synoptic gospels...

For the (21st?) time, BB, what is your empirical evidence that words were placed in Jesus's mouth by the authors? Do you have samples of before-and-after gospels and epistles to show to us? Thanks.
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08-04-2013, 01:46 PM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
(08-04-2013 01:03 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  For the (11th?) time, BB, 1) What is your empirical evidence, not "textual analysis", that dates Paul's writings to after the gospels? I thought all your liberals love late dates for the gospels. == AGAIN, if you place the gospels AFTER Paul, what is Paul quoting from/altering/trying to accomplish? I would say that only one or two epistles predated the synoptic gospels...

For the (21st?) time, BB, what is your empirical evidence that words were placed in Jesus's mouth by the authors? Do you have samples of before-and-after gospels and epistles to show to us? Thanks.

Easy step.. open most modern Bibles and look at the end of Mark or some other sections. They'll mention it themselves.

http://www.bible-researcher.com/endmark.html

http://conversationalatheist.com/christi...the-bible/

http://str.typepad.com/weblog/2013/02/in...erses.html

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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08-04-2013, 01:52 PM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
You want proof that I exsist huh? Well, because this is the internet you are going to have to take a level of faith on the subject. I could show you to my FB site or send you an email. I could even give you my SSN or credit card # but all in all, you are going to have to take a level of faith on the subject unless you see me in person. However, it can be rulled that you are talking to someone, maybe not the person you think I am or the person that I protray, but someone for certin. Unless you think that you might be schizophrenic, then maybe you are typing to yourself but do not remember it because it is your alter ego who is responding.
So unless you take my word for it, then there is no proof.
Still waiting for your proof about god. Smoking gun would sugest that I don't have to take your word for it, because it is not denyable. Got anything or not sir?[/i]

You can argue with logic all you want, but if you put faulty data in to start with then you get a faulty answer. No matter how logically you agrue it.
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08-04-2013, 02:11 PM (This post was last modified: 09-04-2013 01:19 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Run The Gauntlet
(08-04-2013 01:03 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  For the (11th?) time, BB, 1) What is your empirical evidence, not "textual analysis", that dates Paul's writings to after the gospels? I thought all your liberals love late dates for the gospels. == AGAIN, if you place the gospels AFTER Paul, what is Paul quoting from/altering/trying to accomplish? I would say that only one or two epistles predated the synoptic gospels...

For the (21st?) time, BB, what is your empirical evidence that words were placed in Jesus's mouth by the authors? Do you have samples of before-and-after gospels and epistles to show to us? Thanks.
BB, you claim to be intelligent, and you clearly are, but I hope you understand that not only didn't Jesus say, "ecclesia", but most scholars say Greek was not the language He used during His mission.

You just don't get it. PAUL cooked up Paulianity, (the religion you practice). HE wrote first. It took a long time for his ideas to get around. Mark is lacking much of the "salvation" stuff. It took a long time to develop. Hell, the first copies didn't even have a resurrection. I'm not saying the gospels were written first. Paul said HE already HAD his gospel, WAY before any of the others were cooked up. Anyway the word "euangelion" (which is translated to "gospel" from the Greek) just means "good news". It in now way referenced a written book or scroll.

Of course Jebus did not speak Greek, or use the word "ecclesia". There is no Aramaic equivalent, or Hebrew equivalent. That does b=not change the fact that the word "ecclesia" IS in the quote in the NT. Obviously the authors cooked up the quote to back-end justify the church's authority, and support the primacy of the bishop of Rome. It's just lime the rest of the Bible. It's a set of political books. Not religious texts.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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08-04-2013, 02:13 PM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
(08-04-2013 02:11 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(08-04-2013 01:03 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  For the (11th?) time, BB, 1) What is your empirical evidence, not "textual analysis", that dates Paul's writings to after the gospels? I thought all your liberals love late dates for the gospels. == AGAIN, if you place the gospels AFTER Paul, what is Paul quoting from/altering/trying to accomplish? I would say that only one or two epistles predated the synoptic gospels...

For the (21st?) time, BB, what is your empirical evidence that words were placed in Jesus's mouth by the authors? Do you have samples of before-and-after gospels and epistles to show to us? Thanks.

You just don't get it. PAUL cooked up Paulianity, (the religion you practice). HE wrote first. It took a long time for his ideas to get around. Mark is lacking much of the "salvation" stuff. It took a long time to develop. Hell, the first copies didn't even have a resurrection. I'm not saying the gospels were written first. Paul said HE already HAD his gospel, WAY before any of the others were cooked up. Anyway the word "euangelion" (which is translated to "gospel" from the Greek) just means "good news". It in now way referenced a written book or scroll.

But can you prove that this is the case? Or could you indeed prove that earlier texts exist without having direct evidence for it?

I mean, heck, if it is possible we don't exist, Paul was obviously real...Jesus too.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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08-04-2013, 02:55 PM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
(08-04-2013 02:13 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(08-04-2013 02:11 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  You just don't get it. PAUL cooked up Paulianity, (the religion you practice). HE wrote first. It took a long time for his ideas to get around. Mark is lacking much of the "salvation" stuff. It took a long time to develop. Hell, the first copies didn't even have a resurrection. I'm not saying the gospels were written first. Paul said HE already HAD his gospel, WAY before any of the others were cooked up. Anyway the word "euangelion" (which is translated to "gospel" from the Greek) just means "good news". It in now way referenced a written book or scroll.

But can you prove that this is the case? Or could you indeed prove that earlier texts exist without having direct evidence for it?

I mean, heck, if it is possible we don't exist, Paul was obviously real...Jesus too.

First Thessalonians likely the oldest at 49 CE, Romans at 51... and the heck with "experts," it is obvious to one of intelligence that Paul is developing his theology through these epistles. Tongue

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08-04-2013, 04:45 PM
RE: Run The Gauntlet
This whole thread is basically this.




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