Russia Could Invade Ukraine Within Hours.
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02-04-2014, 02:45 PM
RE: Russia Could Invade Ukraine Within Hours.
(02-04-2014 02:37 PM)Paranoidsam Wrote:  At present yes, but Putin is expanding his military... My point being that 10 or 15 years from now, NATO may have reorganized itself to the point where it can't oppose a Cold War type military in the way it could once do.

And there's no way in hell Russia is going to field a Cold War type military.

So there's that.

(02-04-2014 02:37 PM)Paranoidsam Wrote:  It was a very premature thing for many governments to declare state on state warfare to be a thing of the past. This has demonstrated that new tensions and threads can spring up unexpectedly.

And you'd say controlling a majority of the world's military expenditure (and crushing superiority in air/naval assets) isn't enough to act as a deterrent to direct military action?

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02-04-2014, 02:47 PM
RE: Russia Could Invade Ukraine Within Hours.
(02-04-2014 02:45 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(02-04-2014 02:37 PM)Paranoidsam Wrote:  At present yes, but Putin is expanding his military... My point being that 10 or 15 years from now, NATO may have reorganized itself to the point where it can't oppose a Cold War type military in the way it could once do.

And there's no way in hell Russia is going to field a Cold War type military.

So there's that.

(02-04-2014 02:37 PM)Paranoidsam Wrote:  It was a very premature thing for many governments to declare state on state warfare to be a thing of the past. This has demonstrated that new tensions and threads can spring up unexpectedly.

And you'd say controlling a majority of the world's military expenditure (and crushing superiority in air/naval assets) isn't enough to act as a deterrent to direct military action?

I don't know about that deterrence...

Doesn't Russia have a bit of a rep for being the nation of insanity?

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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02-04-2014, 02:50 PM
RE: Russia Could Invade Ukraine Within Hours.
(02-04-2014 02:39 PM)PoolBoyG Wrote:  Hmm. NATO, the greatest purveyor of murder, destruction, and arms dealing of the last couple decades, is scrambling to fear and war monger to make itself relevant and make a nice profit.

That's cute and all, but it's just stupid and irresponsible Drinking Beverage

... the same NATO which has barely ever done anything in its entire history? That NATO?

If you mean NATO members, that's more relevant, but disingenuous. Those being different things.

If you've got a point besides whataboutism, let us know.

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02-04-2014, 02:55 PM
RE: Russia Could Invade Ukraine Within Hours.
(02-04-2014 02:47 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  I don't know about that deterrence...

Doesn't Russia have a bit of a rep for being the nation of insanity?

Protip: Hetalia is not real.
Wink

What matters for people like Putin is whether they're still getting reasonable data. You don't get to be (semi)dictator by being stupid. But after a while in power touch with reality can start slipping (see Hussein or Qaddafi).

But no, even if Putin has convinced himself eastern Ukraine is silently waiting for the day they can welcome the Russian army with open arms, the NATO tripwire is not and never has been a bluff.

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02-04-2014, 02:57 PM
RE: Russia Could Invade Ukraine Within Hours.
Hold the phone.

I just realized something. We're totally screwed!

Did you know that NATO was founded on April 4 1949?

And today is April 2 2014?

Yes. That's right, people.

NATO is just 2 days from retirement.

Clearly we're all doomed.

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02-04-2014, 03:00 PM
RE: Russia Could Invade Ukraine Within Hours.
(02-04-2014 02:55 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(02-04-2014 02:47 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  I don't know about that deterrence...

Doesn't Russia have a bit of a rep for being the nation of insanity?

Protip: Hetalia is not real.
Wink

That's not what I was thinking about. At all.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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02-04-2014, 03:03 PM
Exclamation RE: Russia Could Invade Ukraine Within Hours.
(02-04-2014 02:50 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(02-04-2014 02:39 PM)PoolBoyG Wrote:  Hmm. NATO, the greatest purveyor of murder, destruction, and arms dealing of the last couple decades, is scrambling to fear and war monger to make itself relevant and make a nice profit.

That's cute and all, but it's just stupid and irresponsible Drinking Beverage

... the same NATO which has barely ever done anything in its entire history? That NATO?

If you mean NATO members, that's more relevant, but disingenuous. Those being different things.

If you've got a point besides whataboutism, let us know.

I'm very confident that you're playing dumb, and could easily name one or two recent bombing campaigns off the top of your head. No googling required. I also think you could recognize it's further expansion and build up. I have that much faith in you.

Just remember you're a peon, that has no profit to be made in pushing militarism and paranoia. None what so ever. Maybe trying to vindicate certain beliefs and prejudices, but those are unimportant. But you do have a moral quandary in supporting and apologizing for something that has killed and destroyed so many. And is expanding with force. The far right armed coup in Kiev may not be the last.

Just weigh the costs and dead bodies in one hand, and the claims in justifying it in the other hand. Just think for a second.
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02-04-2014, 03:04 PM
RE: Russia Could Invade Ukraine Within Hours.
(02-04-2014 03:00 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(02-04-2014 02:55 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Protip: Hetalia is not real.
Wink

That's not what I was thinking about. At all.

Meh. Same difference. "A reputation for insanity" is a meaningless stereotype. Not the kind of thing to be basing geopolitical evaluations on...

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02-04-2014, 03:05 PM
RE: Russia Could Invade Ukraine Within Hours.
(02-04-2014 03:03 PM)PoolBoyG Wrote:  
(02-04-2014 02:50 PM)cjlr Wrote:  ... the same NATO which has barely ever done anything in its entire history? That NATO?

If you mean NATO members, that's more relevant, but disingenuous. Those being different things.

If you've got a point besides whataboutism, let us know.

Just weigh the costs and dead bodies in one hand, and the claims in justifying it in the other hand. Just think for a second.

But... I can't hold dead bodies in one hand alone... What you are asking is impossible, sir!

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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02-04-2014, 03:10 PM
RE: Russia Could Invade Ukraine Within Hours.
(02-04-2014 03:03 PM)PoolBoyG Wrote:  I'm very confident that you're playing dumb, and could easily name one or two recent bombing campaigns off the top of your head. No googling required. I also think you could recognize it's further expansion and build up. I have that much faith in you.

Yugoslavia. Afghanistan. Libya.

That's it. Those are the only NATO operations. The most recent was three years ago.

What else were you thinking of?

(02-04-2014 03:03 PM)PoolBoyG Wrote:  Just remember you're a peon...

Uh, thanks.

(02-04-2014 03:03 PM)PoolBoyG Wrote:  ... that has no profit to be made in pushing militarism and paranoia. None what so ever.

Okay. Let me know if I ever do that, then.

(02-04-2014 03:03 PM)PoolBoyG Wrote:  Maybe trying to vindicate certain beliefs and prejudices, but those are unimportant. But you do have a moral quandary in supporting and apologizing for something that has killed and destroyed so many.

Okay. Let me know if I ever do that, then.

(02-04-2014 03:03 PM)PoolBoyG Wrote:  And is expanding with force. The far right armed coup in Kiev may not be the last.

Uh... right then.

(02-04-2014 03:03 PM)PoolBoyG Wrote:  Just weigh the costs and dead bodies in one hand, and the claims in justifying it in the other hand. Just think for a second.

What I said was that Russia is not going to attack NATO members, because that would go badly and they are not stupid.

I really can't tell at this point what you're on about.

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