Russian ambassador in Ankara shot
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19-12-2016, 03:20 PM
RE: Russian ambassador in Ankara shot
(19-12-2016 02:55 PM)tomilay Wrote:  
(19-12-2016 01:06 PM)yakherder Wrote:  I doubt NATO would actually take action anyway.

Probably not. Which brings into to question the value of some of the memberships on the fringes of the alliance.

I think that NATO usefulness died with the end of the Cold War. I honestly can't imagine it doing something significant in event of armed conflict.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

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19-12-2016, 03:41 PM
RE: Russian ambassador in Ankara shot
(19-12-2016 03:20 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(19-12-2016 02:55 PM)tomilay Wrote:  Probably not. Which brings into to question the value of some of the memberships on the fringes of the alliance.

I think that NATO usefulness died with the end of the Cold War. I honestly can't imagine it doing something significant in event of armed conflict.

I think there is a line, but it's to the west of the official boundaries of NATO...the countries that were not previously in the Soviet sphere of influence.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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19-12-2016, 03:46 PM
RE: Russian ambassador in Ankara shot
(19-12-2016 03:41 PM)tomilay Wrote:  
(19-12-2016 03:20 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  I think that NATO usefulness died with the end of the Cold War. I honestly can't imagine it doing something significant in event of armed conflict.

I think there is a line, but it's to the west of the official boundaries of NATO...the countries that were not previously in the Soviet sphere of influence.

I do not much care for NATO - Poland is too insignificant country to shed blood in her defense. Diplomatic protest or sanctions would be harshest measure taken if aggression would occur I - perhaps wrongly - assume.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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19-12-2016, 03:48 PM
RE: Russian ambassador in Ankara shot
(19-12-2016 03:20 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(19-12-2016 02:55 PM)tomilay Wrote:  Probably not. Which brings into to question the value of some of the memberships on the fringes of the alliance.

I think that NATO usefulness died with the end of the Cold War. I honestly can't imagine it doing something significant in event of armed conflict.

At this point NATO is more a means of announcing and expressing consensus condemnation or approval of world affairs with a tacit "I got your back if shit goes south." It did offer to send its 13,000 odd troops (more than half of which are cannon fodder, eer I mean contributions, from the US) to non-ally Ukraine and suspended all practical military and civilian cooperation with Russia in 2014 though. Make of that what you will.

I doubt that Trump is even aware of this but I'm certain that if he did he would not give a flying fuck. "pfffft. That's not cowboy diplomacy. I'll show you morons cowboy diplomacy."

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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19-12-2016, 03:55 PM
RE: Russian ambassador in Ankara shot
(19-12-2016 03:48 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(19-12-2016 03:20 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  I think that NATO usefulness died with the end of the Cold War. I honestly can't imagine it doing something significant in event of armed conflict.

At this point NATO is more a means of announcing and expressing consensus condemnation or approval of world affairs with a tacit "I got your back if shit goes south." It did offer to send its 13,000 odd troops (more than half of which are cannon fodder, eer I mean contributions, from the US) to non-ally Ukraine and suspended all practical military and civilian cooperation with Russia in 2014 though. Make of that what you will.

I doubt that Trump is even aware of this but I'm certain that if he did he would not give a flying fuck. "pfffft. That's not cowboy diplomacy. I'll show you morons cowboy diplomacy."

You wrote that it did offer. But was offer followed by action?

However it is simply knowledge of history that made me think NATO wouldn't do much in event of aggression on Poland. Look how WWII looked like and what real actions did allies take. I don't think that much changed since then, countries still look on their own interests first and Poland did not suddenly became significant actor on the political scene; not one worth shedding blood for by my reckoning at least.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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19-12-2016, 04:00 PM
RE: Russian ambassador in Ankara shot
(19-12-2016 12:11 PM)Vosur Wrote:  Aren't ambassadors supposed to be untouchable on account of diplomatic immunity? I don't see this ending well.

If your opponent is a civilized nation, then yes. If you are dealing with a rogue nation, a terrorist group or a lone gunman then all bets are off and your immunity had best come in the form of a kevlar body stocking.

---
Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
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19-12-2016, 04:09 PM
RE: Russian ambassador in Ankara shot
(19-12-2016 03:55 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(19-12-2016 03:48 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  At this point NATO is more a means of announcing and expressing consensus condemnation or approval of world affairs with a tacit "I got your back if shit goes south." It did offer to send its 13,000 odd troops (more than half of which are cannon fodder, eer I mean contributions, from the US) to non-ally Ukraine and suspended all practical military and civilian cooperation with Russia in 2014 though. Make of that what you will.

I doubt that Trump is even aware of this but I'm certain that if he did he would not give a flying fuck. "pfffft. That's not cowboy diplomacy. I'll show you morons cowboy diplomacy."

You wrote that it did offer. But was offer followed by action?

Putin blinked first.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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19-12-2016, 04:11 PM
RE: Russian ambassador in Ankara shot
(19-12-2016 04:09 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(19-12-2016 03:55 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  You wrote that it did offer. But was offer followed by action?

Putin blinked first.

Ah. Hope he will not try to force another blinking match.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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19-12-2016, 04:11 PM
RE: Russian ambassador in Ankara shot
(19-12-2016 04:11 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(19-12-2016 04:09 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Putin blinked first.

Ah. Hope he will not try to force another blinking match.

Ha! Ukraine is no doubt shitting itself right about now.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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19-12-2016, 04:14 PM
RE: Russian ambassador in Ankara shot
(19-12-2016 04:11 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(19-12-2016 04:11 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  Ah. Hope he will not try to force another blinking match.

Ha! Ukraine is no doubt shitting itself right about now.

I know next to nothing about situation in Ukraine and neither I care much* so I can't comment on this.


*Strange, I know.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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