SC Cop and the girl who recorded the video
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29-10-2015, 03:49 PM (This post was last modified: 29-10-2015 03:59 PM by Lord Dark Helmet.)
RE: SC Cop and the girl who recorded the video
(29-10-2015 03:38 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(29-10-2015 03:23 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  The meme you posted sums up exactly why I left the active police force and moved to the armory fixing and maintaining the weapons.

The final straw one day was a guy that was jaywalking. Multiple people had been run over in this area and they wanted us to crackdown on it. So I was posted across the street in my cruiser. I see a young guy cross the street without waiting for the light, causing a vehicle to slam on his brakes, and almost get rear ended by the vehicle behind him.

I exited the vehicle and approached the jaywalker, ticket book in hand. The conversation went like this:

Excuse me, I need to talk to you concerning your illegal street crossing.

It ain't illegal to cross no street man.

It is if the light is red.

That's a stupid law, ain't no cars coming right when I crossed. I didn't get hit did I?

That doesn't matter, I'm still writing you a citation.

I ain't getting no citation man. That's stupid. I'll take it to court.

At this point, he just starts walking away. I have no choice but to grab him and pull him off to the side and put him up against the building. Instantly I have at least two people with cell phone cameras recording me, and my jaywalker keeps saying "come on man you know you wouldn't be doing this to me if I was white." Fucking bullshit, because I would and had before.

I wrote him his citation and sent him on his way. But that was it. I didn't want to do it anymore. It was like that on far too many of the interactions I had with people. Too many dumb fucks out there that think they're street lawyers, or that the laws didn't apply to them, or that the laws were "stupid" so they had the right or the duty to disobey them. Every action is scrutinized on the spot. Onlookers yelling at me to "stop being a nazi."

I now only do private property events for overtime work. Football games. Bars. Stuff like that. Chris Christie was right last night. Cops really don't want to do the job anymore.

If you support the message in that meme, you're the type of person who shouldn't have the authority afforded to those enlisted to protect and serve citizens.

The meme is correct. Although I understand some officers are just bad officers, and I've seen them with my own eyes. But I assure you that the problem isn't a few bad cops. The problem really is that people just don't give a fuck anymore. They really don't follow rules or laws anymore. They really do feel entitled. It's a serious problem. I've been in the middle of a lawful arrest and had people jump in and attempt to free the suspect.

It works like this: The people vote in politicians. The politicians are expected to make laws by the people who vote them in. The laws get passed, and the cops are supposed to uphold these laws. The problem is that some people just don't give a shit about the law. Whether it's jaywalking or murder, a law is a law. The majority of people believe these laws are just, and if they don't, they elect new politicians.

Bringing a cell phone into the classroom is against the rules. Don't like that rule? Vote in new city council members or school board members to allow phones in class. The majority of parents obviously believe students aren't paying attention with phones in class so they keep voting in those same school board members who imposed the ban.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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29-10-2015, 03:59 PM
SC Cop and the girl who recorded the video
(29-10-2015 03:49 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(29-10-2015 03:38 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  If you support the message in that meme, you're the type of person who shouldn't have the authority afforded to those enlisted to protect and serve citizens.

The meme is correct. Although I understand some officers are just bad officers, and I've seen them with my own eyes. But I assure you that the problem isn't a few bad cops. The problem really is that people just don't give a fuck anymore. They really don't follow rules or laws anymore. They really do feel entitled. It's a serious problem. I've been in the middle of a lawful arrest and had people jump in and attempt to free the suspect.

It works like this: The people vote in politicians. The politicians are expected to make laws by the people who vote them in. The laws get passed, and the cops are supposed to uphold these laws. The problem is that some people just don't give a shit about the law. Whether it's jaywalking or murder, a law is a law. The majority of people believe these laws are just, and if they don't, they elect new politicians.

Bringing a cell phone into the classroom is against the rules. Don't like that rule? Vote in new city council members or school board members to allow phones in class.

Responding to non-violent offenders with aggression and violence, isn't what police officers are supposed to do while protecting and serving.

We've always had stupid people. Society has never been void of them.

We've always had people who don't follow laws. Our society has never been void of them.

We've always had need for new laws or revisions to old laws as long as we've had laws. Society has never been void of this problem.


The notion that society's issues are a result of "entitlement" is complete crap. It isn't even a coherent argument. The observation that people are self-preservationist isn't even an observation unique to the human species. It's an argument used to justify treating people differently or used to blame people who suffer at the hands of authority.

Did Eric Garner earn that chokehold for selling cigarettes for disobeying the cops?

The girl in that video didn't deserve to be treated in that way. Which wasn't merely disrespectful, it was violent and unethical. People shouldn't be treated that way because a cop feels disrespected.


The girl recording shouldn't be arrested for possessing a phone or recording a video. That's asinine. It asserts an atmosphere in the classroom that disobedience is grounds for being arrested, which is too totalitarian for my taste.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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29-10-2015, 04:04 PM
SC Cop and the girl who recorded the video
If a cop feels disrespected, they should have the training and patience to deescalate the situation. Of course people are going to be upset, agitated, and angry for getting tickets. But a cop who takes that personally has boundary issues. A person venting because they are going to have to pay money for jaywalking or speeding or whatever, is understandable. But they will still have to pay it.

If I got offended every time my students answered a question incorrectly, I'd be in a perpetual state of depression. My job is to instruct them and correct them. If they are offended by that and disrespectful to me as a result, that's on them and I'll let them know it, verbally or orally. But unless they attack me, it would be unwarranted to attack them.

I expect police officers to be professional in the same way. And if they can't withhold their aggression because they feel disrespected, then they don't need to be in charge of policing people.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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29-10-2015, 04:07 PM
RE: SC Cop and the girl who recorded the video
Then I ask, what are they supposed to do? The student in this case was told to leave. Multiple times. By a teacher. Then the principal. Then an officer. She refused. What else can be done, except to forcefully remove her by the people we entrust to do such things? Sit there until she gets hungry two days later and walks out on her own?

No. There are rules. It's the social contract. We must follow the rules agreed upon by the majority through elections. We can't just allow a few individuals to say "no. I don't care for your rules." Fine. Then leave. Oh you don't want to leave? Then we'll make you leave. That is how it works.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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29-10-2015, 04:10 PM (This post was last modified: 29-10-2015 04:15 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: SC Cop and the girl who recorded the video
(29-10-2015 03:59 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Did Eric Garner earn that chokehold for selling cigarettes for disobeying the cops?

Turns out no cigarettes were found on Garner that particular day. He did have a history of selling one cigarette at a time. To the gallows!

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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29-10-2015, 04:11 PM
SC Cop and the girl who recorded the video
(29-10-2015 04:07 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Then I ask, what are they supposed to do? The student in this case was told to leave. Multiple times. By a teacher. Then the principal. Then an officer. She refused. What else can be done, except to forcefully remove her by the people we entrust to do such things? Sit there until she gets hungry two days later and walks out on her own?

No. There are rules. It's the social contract. We must follow the rules agreed upon by the majority through elections. We can't just allow a few individuals to say "no. I don't care for your rules." Fine. Then leave. Oh you don't want to leave? Then we'll make you leave. That is how it works.

You don't throw them to the ground. You don't treat nonviolence with violence. You have a student who is clearly going through a personal problem, you find a way to counsel that person.

The notion that she deserved any of that, is appalling. The fact that you defend it, is disgusting.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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29-10-2015, 04:13 PM
RE: SC Cop and the girl who recorded the video
Talking about cops now, not school kids - what is the cop to do when a person simply doesn't co-operate?

What if the perp walks away? Can the cop force him against the wall? Will the cop do so with people recording everything?

What if the perp fights back? Is the cop supposed to just let him go?

I would not be a police officer for any amount of money.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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29-10-2015, 04:15 PM
RE: SC Cop and the girl who recorded the video
(29-10-2015 04:11 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  You have a student who is clearly going through a personal problem, you find a way to counsel that person.

The girl had recently been orphaned and was moved to the foster care system. The school knew this.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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29-10-2015, 04:17 PM
RE: SC Cop and the girl who recorded the video
(29-10-2015 04:11 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(29-10-2015 04:07 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Then I ask, what are they supposed to do? The student in this case was told to leave. Multiple times. By a teacher. Then the principal. Then an officer. She refused. What else can be done, except to forcefully remove her by the people we entrust to do such things? Sit there until she gets hungry two days later and walks out on her own?

No. There are rules. It's the social contract. We must follow the rules agreed upon by the majority through elections. We can't just allow a few individuals to say "no. I don't care for your rules." Fine. Then leave. Oh you don't want to leave? Then we'll make you leave. That is how it works.

You don't throw them to the ground. You don't treat nonviolence with violence. You have a student who is clearly going through a personal problem, you find a way to counsel that person.

The notion that she deserved any of that, is appalling. The fact that you defend it, is disgusting.

I'm not defending the level of force. I will defend arrest under the laws. Disruption. Resisting. Whatever. I could have made that arrest much easier with minimal force. A simple arm bar on someone that size will result in compliance. You take her to another area with the school staff and get to the bottom of it. Removing her from the class, even with a little force, doesn't mean she would get criminal charges. But talking to her right there in front of everyone is also wrong. She had to get out.

Sometimes you do treat nonviolence with violence. A suspect in a crime doesn't just get to walk away simply because they are not acting violent at the time. You don't just stand there and say "please get in the back of my patrol car" a million times. You tell them once, put your hands behind their back. If they don't, you do it for them. Simple.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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29-10-2015, 04:18 PM
SC Cop and the girl who recorded the video
(29-10-2015 04:13 PM)Dom Wrote:  Talking about cops now, not school kids - what is the cop to do when a person simply doesn't co-operate?

What if the perp walks away? Can the cop force him against the wall? Will the cop do so with people recording everything?

What if the perp fights back? Is the cop supposed to just let him go?

I would not be a police officer for any amount of money.

Where are they going to go if they walk away or don't cooperate? Follow them. Talk to them. But being aggressive is only going to elicit an aggressive response.

If they fight back, that's a violent response that should allow for the cop to defend themselves.


As for the kid who refuses to leave class, let them throw their hissy fit and stay in their seat. Move the rest of the class out and keep on instructing elsewhere. Don't give her the attention she is seeking.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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