SC Cop and the girl who recorded the video
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29-10-2015, 04:19 PM
RE: SC Cop and the girl who recorded the video
I guess there are more and more luminion's out there than we can figure out.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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29-10-2015, 04:19 PM
SC Cop and the girl who recorded the video
(29-10-2015 04:17 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(29-10-2015 04:11 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  You don't throw them to the ground. You don't treat nonviolence with violence. You have a student who is clearly going through a personal problem, you find a way to counsel that person.

The notion that she deserved any of that, is appalling. The fact that you defend it, is disgusting.

I'm not defending the level of force. I will defend arrest under the laws. Disruption. Resisting. Whatever. I could have made that arrest much easier with minimal force. A simple arm bar on someone that size will result in compliance. You take her to another area with the school staff and get to the bottom of it. Removing her from the class, even with a little force, doesn't mean she would get criminal charges. But talking to her right there in front of everyone is also wrong. She had to get out.

Or you move the other students. The school (as girly noted) knew she was going through a rough patch. Let her throw her fit, but let her throw it alone. Removing the rest of the class isn't ideal, but it's a damn site better than being violent to any degree.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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29-10-2015, 04:20 PM
RE: SC Cop and the girl who recorded the video
(29-10-2015 03:49 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(29-10-2015 03:38 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  If you support the message in that meme, you're the type of person who shouldn't have the authority afforded to those enlisted to protect and serve citizens.

The meme is correct. Although I understand some officers are just bad officers, and I've seen them with my own eyes. But I assure you that the problem isn't a few bad cops. The problem really is that people just don't give a fuck anymore. They really don't follow rules or laws anymore. They really do feel entitled. It's a serious problem. I've been in the middle of a lawful arrest and had people jump in and attempt to free the suspect.

It works like this: The people vote in politicians. The politicians are expected to make laws by the people who vote them in. The laws get passed, and the cops are supposed to uphold these laws. The problem is that some people just don't give a shit about the law. Whether it's jaywalking or murder, a law is a law. The majority of people believe these laws are just, and if they don't, they elect new politicians.

Bringing a cell phone into the classroom is against the rules. Don't like that rule? Vote in new city council members or school board members to allow phones in class. The majority of parents obviously believe students aren't paying attention with phones in class so they keep voting in those same school board members who imposed the ban.

I agree that some cops are just assholes, I also know that being a cop is stressful. I understand the public makes it difficult at times for cops to do their job.

BUT we're talking about schools, kids and cell phones.

It's not like selling crack and calling the police to have a student arrested for having a cell phone is a waste of taxpayer dollars. The schools have their own remedies for such offenses.

The schools can and should have policies about when and if cell phones can be utilized. Usually they're off limits during school hours.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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29-10-2015, 04:20 PM (This post was last modified: 29-10-2015 04:25 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: SC Cop and the girl who recorded the video
(29-10-2015 04:13 PM)Dom Wrote:  Talking about cops now, not school kids - what is the cop to do when a person simply doesn't co-operate?

In DC apparently they throw down against each with something called a nay nay whatever the fuck that is.




#sigh
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29-10-2015, 04:29 PM
RE: SC Cop and the girl who recorded the video
(29-10-2015 04:19 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(29-10-2015 04:17 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I'm not defending the level of force. I will defend arrest under the laws. Disruption. Resisting. Whatever. I could have made that arrest much easier with minimal force. A simple arm bar on someone that size will result in compliance. You take her to another area with the school staff and get to the bottom of it. Removing her from the class, even with a little force, doesn't mean she would get criminal charges. But talking to her right there in front of everyone is also wrong. She had to get out.

Or you move the other students. The school (as girly noted) knew she was going through a rough patch. Let her throw her fit, but let her throw it alone. Removing the rest of the class isn't ideal, but it's a damn site better than being violent to any degree.
No, you don't move the other students. You move the disruption. That class as a collective have the right not to be disrupted. That's why class disruption laws exist. You remove the disruption, not the class.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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29-10-2015, 04:29 PM
RE: SC Cop and the girl who recorded the video
(29-10-2015 04:07 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Then I ask, what are they supposed to do? The student in this case was told to leave. Multiple times. By a teacher. Then the principal. Then an officer. She refused. What else can be done, except to forcefully remove her by the people we entrust to do such things? Sit there until she gets hungry two days later and walks out on her own?

No. There are rules. It's the social contract. We must follow the rules agreed upon by the majority through elections. We can't just allow a few individuals to say "no. I don't care for your rules." Fine. Then leave. Oh you don't want to leave? Then we'll make you leave. That is how it works.

You can't seriously be suggesting that the level of violence the officer used to remove her was warranted. It was an insane overreaction. There was no reason at all to lay hands on that girl. You want her to leave, you explain if she doesn't leave she will be expelled. You tell her that nothing will be done in class until she gets up and leaves. You keep telling the class that no one will do anything until she decides to get up and accompany the officer. It will take a few minutes and is not nearly as fast or satisfactory (if you're a sadist) as physically assaulting her, but you can absolutely get her out of that seat without laying a fucking hand on her. I have a son that age and, while all kids are different, no 14 or 15 year old wants all the negative focus on them. You do the things I mention, she will get up and go eventually. It may take a few minutes but it will happen.

Being a cop is a tough job, no doubt. But, it's not made any easier when you hire thugs and assholes, and this guy was both. What he did was indefensible. The girl was playing on her phone, for pete's sake. She put it away, apologized and said she wanted to stay. I get it was no longer her call and the teacher wasn't having it, and she should have left at that point. But, the level of escalation was criminal. And, what lesson do we teach these kids?

And the police then wonder why people in their communities hate and distrust them. That video gives a big clue as to why.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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29-10-2015, 04:30 PM
RE: SC Cop and the girl who recorded the video
(29-10-2015 04:19 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(29-10-2015 04:17 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I'm not defending the level of force. I will defend arrest under the laws. Disruption. Resisting. Whatever. I could have made that arrest much easier with minimal force. A simple arm bar on someone that size will result in compliance. You take her to another area with the school staff and get to the bottom of it. Removing her from the class, even with a little force, doesn't mean she would get criminal charges. But talking to her right there in front of everyone is also wrong. She had to get out.

Or you move the other students. The school (as girly noted) knew she was going through a rough patch. Let her throw her fit, but let her throw it alone. Removing the rest of the class isn't ideal, but it's a damn site better than being violent to any degree.

Not condoning the violence or arrest, that was totally unnecessary but having a hard time is hardly a valid excuse to let someone break rules. Whats next? "My grandmother died and I am really depressed about it which is why I murdered that man." "Ok since you were not well you are free to go." She would just then used the rough patch excuse to break other rules and get her way. Maybe lighten the punishment and offer help but just letting her throw her fit without consequences would not help.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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29-10-2015, 04:31 PM
RE: SC Cop and the girl who recorded the video
(29-10-2015 04:29 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  No, you don't move the other students. You move the disruption. That class as a collective have the right not to be disrupted. That's why class disruption laws exist. You remove the disruption, not the class.

Never interacted with a special needs person huh? That's a shame. I learned more about myself than ever before.

#sigh
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29-10-2015, 04:33 PM
RE: SC Cop and the girl who recorded the video
(29-10-2015 04:30 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  Not condoning the violence or arrest, that was totally unnecessary but having a hard time is hardly a valid excuse to let someone break rules. Whats next? "My grandmother died and I am really depressed about it which is why I murdered that man." "Ok since you were not well you are free to go." She would just then used the rough patch excuse to break other rules and get her way. Maybe lighten the punishment and offer help but just letting her throw her fit without consequences would not help.

You should grab Dorothy and the two of you can take that strawman you're carrying around off to see the wizard.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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29-10-2015, 04:34 PM
RE: SC Cop and the girl who recorded the video
(29-10-2015 04:33 PM)BnW Wrote:  
(29-10-2015 04:30 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  Not condoning the violence or arrest, that was totally unnecessary but having a hard time is hardly a valid excuse to let someone break rules. Whats next? "My grandmother died and I am really depressed about it which is why I murdered that man." "Ok since you were not well you are free to go." She would just then used the rough patch excuse to break other rules and get her way. Maybe lighten the punishment and offer help but just letting her throw her fit without consequences would not help.

You should grab Dorothy and the two of you can take that strawman you're carrying around off to see the wizard.

? What are you talking about?

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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