SC Cop and the girl who recorded the video
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29-10-2015, 04:35 PM
RE: SC Cop and the girl who recorded the video
There are non violent ways to forcibly move people. I had to be trained for my job to do such a thing, but it was ALWAYS an extreme last resort or for emergencies.

There is no reason this had to go down like it did.
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29-10-2015, 04:37 PM
SC Cop and the girl who recorded the video
(29-10-2015 04:34 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(29-10-2015 04:33 PM)BnW Wrote:  You should grab Dorothy and the two of you can take that strawman you're carrying around off to see the wizard.

? What are you talking about?

The fact that you're arguing against something no one is saying with your slippery slope fallacy example.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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29-10-2015, 04:38 PM
RE: SC Cop and the girl who recorded the video
(29-10-2015 04:29 PM)BnW Wrote:  
(29-10-2015 04:07 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Then I ask, what are they supposed to do? The student in this case was told to leave. Multiple times. By a teacher. Then the principal. Then an officer. She refused. What else can be done, except to forcefully remove her by the people we entrust to do such things? Sit there until she gets hungry two days later and walks out on her own?

No. There are rules. It's the social contract. We must follow the rules agreed upon by the majority through elections. We can't just allow a few individuals to say "no. I don't care for your rules." Fine. Then leave. Oh you don't want to leave? Then we'll make you leave. That is how it works.

You can't seriously be suggesting that the level of violence the officer used to remove her was warranted. It was an insane overreaction. There was no reason at all to lay hands on that girl. You want her to leave, you explain if she doesn't leave she will be expelled. You tell her that nothing will be done in class until she gets up and leaves. You keep telling the class that no one will do anything until she decides to get up and accompany the officer. It will take a few minutes and is not nearly as fast or satisfactory (if you're a sadist) as physically assaulting her, but you can absolutely get her out of that seat without laying a fucking hand on her. I have a son that age and, while all kids are different, no 14 or 15 year old wants all the negative focus on them. You do the things I mention, she will get up and go eventually. It may take a few minutes but it will happen.

Being a cop is a tough job, no doubt. But, it's not made any easier when you hire thugs and assholes, and this guy was both. What he did was indefensible. The girl was playing on her phone, for pete's sake. She put it away, apologized and said she wanted to stay. I get it was no longer her call and the teacher wasn't having it, and she should have left at that point. But, the level of escalation was criminal. And, what lesson do we teach these kids?

And the police then wonder why people in their communities hate and distrust them. That video gives a big clue as to why.
As I said in a different post, not condoning the level of force. But force could be used in that case. I've been through two police training schools. One in the military, one civilian. Force would be justified. This cop would not had been fired if he'd simply used an arm bar and escorted her out. If she resisted, put her in cuffs. No use of force violations there. Slamming her, then throwing her was unnecessary.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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29-10-2015, 04:38 PM
SC Cop and the girl who recorded the video
(29-10-2015 04:29 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(29-10-2015 04:19 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Or you move the other students. The school (as girly noted) knew she was going through a rough patch. Let her throw her fit, but let her throw it alone. Removing the rest of the class isn't ideal, but it's a damn site better than being violent to any degree.
No, you don't move the other students. You move the disruption. That class as a collective have the right not to be disrupted. That's why class disruption laws exist. You remove the disruption, not the class.

The other students are already disrupted and violently or forcibly removing the student is also disrupting. Your objection is nonsensical.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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29-10-2015, 04:42 PM
RE: SC Cop and the girl who recorded the video
(29-10-2015 04:37 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(29-10-2015 04:34 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  ? What are you talking about?

The fact that you're arguing against something no one is saying with your slippery slope fallacy example.

Except you just said to let have her fit because she was going through a rough patch, it's right in the quote in my post. Need I post it 5 more times so people can read it?

(29-10-2015 04:19 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Or you move the other students. The school (as girly noted) knew she was going through a rough patch. Let her throw her fit, but let her throw it alone. Removing the rest of the class isn't ideal, but it's a damn site better than being violent to any degree.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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29-10-2015, 04:44 PM
RE: SC Cop and the girl who recorded the video
(29-10-2015 04:38 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  As I said in a different post, not condoning the level of force. But force could be used in that case. I've been through two police training schools. One in the military, one civilian. Force would be justified. This cop would not had been fired if he'd simply used an arm bar and escorted her out. If she resisted, put her in cuffs. No use of force violations there. Slamming her, then throwing her was unnecessary.

Force could be used in every case. It doesn't make it reasonable, necessary, justified or moral.

Do you really want to live in a world where armed guards are authorized to forcibly remove 15 year old girls from a classroom because they violated the school cell phone policy? Is that really where we are now? Is there really an acceptable level of violence for what she did?

What kills me about this is some of the same people who think this is acceptable also want to blame video games for our violent society. Maybe the problem is our government deals with its citizens violently and they react and learn in kind.

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29-10-2015, 04:44 PM
SC Cop and the girl who recorded the video
(29-10-2015 04:42 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(29-10-2015 04:37 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  The fact that you're arguing against something no one is saying with your slippery slope fallacy example.

Except you just said to let have her fit because she was going through a rough patch, it's right in the quote in my post. Need I post it 5 more times so people can read it?

(29-10-2015 04:19 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Or you move the other students. The school (as girly noted) knew she was going through a rough patch. Let her throw her fit, but let her throw it alone. Removing the rest of the class isn't ideal, but it's a damn site better than being violent to any degree.

At what point did I suggest that that also be an excuse for actually breaking the law?

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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29-10-2015, 04:46 PM
SC Cop and the girl who recorded the video
(29-10-2015 04:42 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(29-10-2015 04:37 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  The fact that you're arguing against something no one is saying with your slippery slope fallacy example.

Except you just said to let have her fit because she was going through a rough patch, it's right in the quote in my post. Need I post it 5 more times so people can read it?

(29-10-2015 04:19 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Or you move the other students. The school (as girly noted) knew she was going through a rough patch. Let her throw her fit, but let her throw it alone. Removing the rest of the class isn't ideal, but it's a damn site better than being violent to any degree.

I'm well aware of what I said, and your interpretation of it is a straw man. And your slippery slope fallacy example of a person being excused for murder is ridiculous.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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29-10-2015, 04:47 PM
RE: SC Cop and the girl who recorded the video
(29-10-2015 04:44 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(29-10-2015 04:42 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  Except you just said to let have her fit because she was going through a rough patch, it's right in the quote in my post. Need I post it 5 more times so people can read it?

At what point did I suggest that that also be an excuse for actually breaking the law?

You didn't, did you not read my post? Had nothing to do with breaking the law. I said going through hard times is no excuse for getting away with breaking rules, IE. using your phone in class or being disruptive. My example is an example of what could happen if we let people get away with things just because they are going through bad times. Sigh forget it.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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29-10-2015, 04:50 PM
SC Cop and the girl who recorded the video
(29-10-2015 04:47 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(29-10-2015 04:44 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  At what point did I suggest that that also be an excuse for actually breaking the law?

You didn't, did you not read my post? Had nothing to do with breaking the law. I said going through hard times is no excuse for getting away with breaking rules, IE. using your phone in class or being disruptive. My example is an example of what could happen if we let people get away with things just because they are going through bad times. Sigh forget it.

It was a slippery slope fallacy and a misrepresentation of what I actually did say.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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