SCOTUS bitch slaps Texas on abortion rights.
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28-06-2016, 07:20 AM
RE: SCOTUS bitch slaps Texas on abortion rights.
At what point does a fetus become a human?

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28-06-2016, 07:29 AM
RE: SCOTUS bitch slaps Texas on abortion rights.
(28-06-2016 06:59 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(28-06-2016 06:39 AM)Dom Wrote:  If it can't survive without a live brooder, it's not an entity at all. If it can't feel, there is no moral issue. If it can't think, it doesn't care. It's a potential human. We can argue about when it becomes human to a point - I'd be willing to entertain that it is human once it is conscious. Morally - I'd be in agreement that there needs to be empathy for it once it can feel pain.

But what is this "sanctity of life" when applied to a mass that is not viable, cannot feel and cannot think? It's woo, that's what it is.
I think it's a matter of opinion like any other moral issue. I'm not particularly interested in convincing you or anyone else that your moral views are wrong because it has no practical relevance in this case. We all agree that abortions shouldn't be outlawed.


The sanctity of life is religious woo.

The moral and rational counter parts are empathy and respect.

Yet so many people who reason are still clinging to woo. It astounds me and is disturbing. We have a very long way to go yet it seems.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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28-06-2016, 07:31 AM
RE: SCOTUS bitch slaps Texas on abortion rights.
(28-06-2016 07:20 AM)CosmicRaven Wrote:  At what point does a fetus become a human?
In my opinion that would be the earliest that a premature baby can reasonably be expected to survive, from my very basic quick google this would generally be accepted as around 24 weeks but could be as early as 22 weeks. Depends where you draw the line at survival rates.

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28-06-2016, 07:38 AM
RE: SCOTUS bitch slaps Texas on abortion rights.
(28-06-2016 07:20 AM)CosmicRaven Wrote:  At what point does a fetus become a human?

Well it is always human. Again the whole argument on that it is a human during its early stages is true, but to use it as an argument against abortion is nothing more than a emotional argument.

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28-06-2016, 07:38 AM
RE: SCOTUS bitch slaps Texas on abortion rights.
Dom, bucky, others, when you understand why you are against infanticide (and/or partial birth abortion), you will understand why prolifers are prolife. There is really no meaningful difference except where you choose to draw the line.

Again, in the infanticide debate, we're all prolife. Dom, bucky, do you think infanticide is morally wrong? If you don't believe in morality (like myself), then is it your preference that infanticide remain illegal? If so, then why do you want it to remain illegal?

I'm not trying to win some sort of argument, I'm just trying to help you understand the position of prolife.
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28-06-2016, 07:40 AM
RE: SCOTUS bitch slaps Texas on abortion rights.
(28-06-2016 07:38 AM)Matt Finney Wrote:  Dom, bucky, others, when you understand why you are against infanticide (and/or partial birth abortion), you will understand why prolifers are prolife. There is really no meaningful difference except where you choose to draw the line.

Again, in the infanticide debate, we're all prolife. Dom, bucky, do you think infanticide is morally wrong? If you don't believe in morality (like myself), then is it your preference that infanticide remain illegal? If so, then why do you want it to remain illegal?

I'm not trying to win some sort of argument, I'm just trying to help you understand the position of prolife.

Empathy and respect for a thinking and feeling being are the moral basis for the rejection of murder.

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28-06-2016, 07:44 AM
RE: SCOTUS bitch slaps Texas on abortion rights.
(28-06-2016 07:40 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(28-06-2016 07:38 AM)Matt Finney Wrote:  Dom, bucky, others, when you understand why you are against infanticide (and/or partial birth abortion), you will understand why prolifers are prolife. There is really no meaningful difference except where you choose to draw the line.

Again, in the infanticide debate, we're all prolife. Dom, bucky, do you think infanticide is morally wrong? If you don't believe in morality (like myself), then is it your preference that infanticide remain illegal? If so, then why do you want it to remain illegal?

I'm not trying to win some sort of argument, I'm just trying to help you understand the position of prolife.

Empathy and respect for a thinking and feeling being are the moral basis for the rejection of murder.

Do you think that a 1 day old newborn is a thinking a feeling being?

What about a prematurely delivered baby that only developed for 8 months? Does it get more rights than a fetus in the womb for 9 months?

When does the thinking and feeling come about? When the umbilical cord is severed?
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28-06-2016, 07:52 AM
RE: SCOTUS bitch slaps Texas on abortion rights.
(28-06-2016 07:44 AM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(28-06-2016 07:40 AM)Dom Wrote:  Empathy and respect for a thinking and feeling being are the moral basis for the rejection of murder.

Do you think that a 1 day old newborn is a thinking a feeling being?

What about a prematurely delivered baby that only developed for 8 months? Does it get more rights than a fetus in the womb for 9 months?

When does the thinking and feeling come about? When the umbilical cord is severed?

Once it has a developed brain and central nervous system, it's a thinking and feeling being. Before that it is a mass of tissue.

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28-06-2016, 08:11 AM (This post was last modified: 28-06-2016 08:21 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: SCOTUS bitch slaps Texas on abortion rights.
(28-06-2016 07:40 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(28-06-2016 07:38 AM)Matt Finney Wrote:  Dom, bucky, others, when you understand why you are against infanticide (and/or partial birth abortion), you will understand why prolifers are prolife. There is really no meaningful difference except where you choose to draw the line.

Again, in the infanticide debate, we're all prolife. Dom, bucky, do you think infanticide is morally wrong? If you don't believe in morality (like myself), then is it your preference that infanticide remain illegal? If so, then why do you want it to remain illegal?

I'm not trying to win some sort of argument, I'm just trying to help you understand the position of prolife.

Empathy and respect for a thinking and feeling being are the moral basis for the rejection of murder.

No. It's false analogy. Totally false presumption. There is no legitimate (properly defined) "position" to understand. It's presumptuous ill-defines bullshit vagary.
We will never understand it, as there is nothing to "understand". It's shifting of definitions and lack of critical thinking.

You can't even define what the words "moral basis" even means. Your words imply (with no explanation or reason) that there IS such a thing, to which we are all obligated, in all situations.
Basically, since you will never be pregnant, you have no right to even begin to say what women should do.
IF you can, you certainly can't tell us why it's your prerogative or right to slap your OPINION of what is moral onto a WOMAN, in a situation you will never even be in.
Don't like abortion, don't have one. But you have no right to define for anyone else what is moral, or tell a woman what to do with her body.


A fetus is not "a" human. "A" implies an individual. It's not, until very late in the preganacy even possible. It's ALL potential. It is entirely dependent (as a parasite is) on it's mother. It's is influenced by what she eats, thinks, drinks, smokes, what hormones circulate, what meds she takes, every minute of every hour of every day. That is no "individual".

You can't even tell us when "conception" begins, exactly, so you basically have NO CLUE what it is you're even talking about.

Is it "immoral" for a woman to take levonorgestrel, (Plan B) to prevent a fertilized zygote from implanting in the uterine wall ? Is a zygote "a human" ? If so, when in the process of fertilization, (EXACTLY) does the potential become actually "a human" ? I guarantee you can't even begin to answer the real questions. All you can do is ask your irrelevant "infanticide" BS crap you've been taught by hysterical religionists.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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28-06-2016, 08:14 AM
RE: SCOTUS bitch slaps Texas on abortion rights.
(28-06-2016 07:12 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(28-06-2016 07:06 AM)morondog Wrote:  Vos, did you just literally appeal to the fact that a foetus looks kinda human? WTF dude? So does a fucking mannequin look human, should I cry if one gets sent to the scrapheap?
I suppose it depends on whether or not you think that killing a biological organism of your own species is equivalent to dismantling a statue made out of fiberglass and plastic.
It would be a subjective judgement. Personally I have zero problem with killing a foetus.

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(28-06-2016 07:07 AM)morondog Wrote:  Cry me a river.
I don't think I said anything to you that would warrant this kind of response. What gives, mate?
I was deliberately trying to be brutal to make my point. i.e. So *what* if the decision to kill the foetus is intentional? It's really *not* a big deal. It's literally like disposing of a toenail clipping or cutting out a tumour. The foetus is not conscious, most of the time, when the decision to abort is made. Late term abortions are rare and would usually be undertaken for medical reasons.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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