SF plane crash, blame airline, not city OP/ED
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16-01-2014, 07:13 AM
SF plane crash, blame airline, not city OP/ED
Last year's airline crash in SF. Ok I agree with a lawsuit over the death of the Chinese girl. But not the fire fighters or first responders. I'd blame the airline. The investigation showed it was pilot error. If proper training and more experienced pilots had been flying the plane the accident never would have happened.

Now from the laypersons point of view the newly released video seems to defy what the first responders said. I disagree. It may seem "calm", but first responders are taught to keep their emotions outwardly in check. But in a uncontrolled sudden accident involving jet fuel at that scale you are going to be focused on the biggest threat first.

Now the ME said she was not dead and that the trucks ran over her and that is what killed her. I have had times with my mom being elderly perfectly alive and lucid and healthy, where a nurse COULD NOT find a pulse, or if drawing blood had a hard time finding e vein. What the videos do not show is the moment she got out of the plane or how she ended up where she was at. It is perfectly reasonable that one of the responders felt no pulse and because of the nature of the situation had to make a quick decision to pass her off as gone.

As far as the trucks I can see the drivers focusing on the biggest objects first, meaning the plane itself, so covered or not covered I think the first responders simply theorized what might have happened because they had no video at the time to determine what happened. Premature speculation maybe, but that does not constitute a cover up.

If I were the lawyer for this family I'd sue the airline, not the first responders. If they had properly trained the pilots in the first place that poor girl and two others would still be alive today.

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16-01-2014, 07:19 AM
RE: SF plane crash, blame airline, not city OP/ED
It is not the responsibility of the airline to secure the rescue of the the passengers and staff after an accident.

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16-01-2014, 07:32 AM
RE: SF plane crash, blame airline, not city OP/ED
(16-01-2014 07:19 AM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  It is not the responsibility of the airline to secure the rescue of the the passengers and staff after an accident.

Duh, but it is there responsibility to land the plane safely which they did not.

I am for lawsuits private or public when clear deliberate mistakes are made. Now between the airline and the first responders, the airline made the mistake that caused all this.

To me this was simply bad luck on the responders part, not any failure of procedure. You have a huge burning object that could blow up on you your eyes are going to be focused on that. I have no doubt that someone checked her pulse. I also have no doubt that they had no time to dwell on it. If I was driving that engine my eyes also would have been on the burning plane.

Again, I've seen nurses put try to take my moms pulse with that blow up sleeve device, but cant find one and have to shift it again or shift arms to finally detect it. That is in a safe controlled environment. This was not.

It sucks that she got run over, but I see no cover up in it. The only thing you might get out of this is a procedure change for the future. But no, sorry the blame rests squarely on the airline and the pilots where it should be.

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16-01-2014, 07:41 AM
RE: SF plane crash, blame airline, not city OP/ED
(16-01-2014 07:32 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  Duh, but it is there responsibility to land the plane safely which they did not.

According to that, every plane crash in human history was a crime.

Quote:I am for lawsuits private or public when clear deliberate mistakes are made. Now between the airline and the first responders, the airline made the mistake that caused all this.

Was the plane crashed on purpose?

Quote:To me this was simply bad luck on the responders part, not any failure of procedure. You have a huge burning object that could blow up on you your eyes are going to be focused on that. I have no doubt that someone checked her pulse. I also have no doubt that they had no time to dwell on it. If I was driving that engine my eyes also would have been on the burning plane.

I actualy read a detailed report.

It concludes that the main cause for the crash was an overload of technology on the cockpit and that the pilots trusted their technology to much.
The display showing the speed at which the plane was dropping was ignored unwillingly because there were too many machines to focuse on, when the pilots did notice, it was to late. A similar overload of tech and to much trust in the technology by the pilots caused the Air France 447 crash in 2011.

Quote:Again, I've seen nurses put try to take my moms pulse with that blow up sleeve device, but cant find one and have to shift it again or shift arms to finally detect it. That is in a safe controlled environment. This was not.

You cannot compare a nurse taking care of a patient to the situation after a plane crash.

Quote:It sucks that she got run over, but I see no cover up in it. The only thing you might get out of this is a procedure change for the future. But no, sorry the blame rests squarely on the airline and the pilots where it should be.

No. Because after the plane crashed, the pilots were no longer responsible for what happend on the ground.

In case of a crash the only responsibility that the crew has is to ensure the safe evacuation of the passengers.

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16-01-2014, 10:09 AM (This post was last modified: 16-01-2014 10:23 AM by Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver.)
RE: SF plane crash, blame airline, not city OP/ED
(16-01-2014 07:13 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  Last year's airline crash in SF. Ok I agree with a lawsuit over the death of the Chinese girl. But not the fire fighters or first responders. I'd blame the airline. The investigation showed it was pilot error. If proper training and more experienced pilots had been flying the plane the accident never would have happened.

If I were the lawyer for this family I'd sue the airline, not the first responders. If they had properly trained the pilots in the first place that poor girl and two others would still be alive today.

There was nothing wrong in regards to the flight crews experience. Both were seasoned airline pilots. You had a new Captain in Training (CIT) who was transitioning over to the 777 aircraft in the left seat and a 777 Instructor Pilot (IP) in the right seat. This kind of transition training on revenue carrying flights is typical and nothing out of the ordinary. The IP had over 10,000 hours total time and over 5,000 on the 777 airplane. The CIT had over 5,000 hours total time and at least 2,000 in jets. The CIT had about 50 hours total time in the 777 A/C which is typical for someone transition over to a new airplane. They had plenty of flight time and experience.

The IP, however, screwed up and didn't catch and correct the CIT when when the airplane dropped below glidepath and slowed to a dangerously low airspeed. At least 82 seconds before impact, the the accident aircraft was too slow and well below glidepath. The IP should have caught that and alerted the CIT to the situation. If the CIT didn't respond appropriately, the IP should have taken the controls and executed a missed approach. Let the student try again on the next pass.

Also at fault was that both crewmembers were becoming too reliant on cockpit automation such as the automatic flight control system and becoming laxed on their hand flying abilities. These systems are great for reducing crew workload but they should never become a crutch for poor handflying skills.

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