SIL still making me nauseated
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09-11-2014, 12:38 AM
RE: SIL still making me nauseated
That's a great idea.

Ridicule is one thing they simply cannot stand.

Always reminds me of this cartoon.

[Image: sophisticated-religion.jpg]

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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09-11-2014, 12:44 AM
RE: SIL still making me nauseated
(08-11-2014 10:00 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  Some of you may remember my debates with my overly religious sister-in-law. I've shared some of the exchanges on here and I've detailed them on my blog (which I admit I have let fall by the wayside because of so many other commitments).

After some heated emails we decided to finally call it quits (even though she couldn't let it go a few times after that) and things have been fairly normal. We just kind of have a "kid gloves" relationship and never really mention religion anymore. It's a relationship of no substance these days.

Today, she couldn't resist sending me a link to a story about religion and science and saying that it was an interesting article.

Here is the link, and feel free to destroy it.

http://m.ncregister.com/site/article/fai...F7h3ie9KSO

I told her I didn't think it was interesting by saying "Not so much." and I put a smiley face as to not be confrontational.

Here was her response: "Are you of the opinion that you know what it says in this article and can prove its wrong. All this article is is an article about all the catholic priests that contributed majorly to science. What's the problem with that? Are you so closed off that you will not even educate yourself on some science facts?"

I told her to "Please just stop. Love you."

And she basically put up an incredulous question mark and an "OK?"

This comes on the heels of my mother sending me three emails where she copied me in her correspondence to a distant relative offering her condolences for someone who died in my family (who I never knew or met) and her religious tripe was too much to swallow.

I can't believe the balls on them. I almost fell over in my chair when I read my SIL's response. The article (on a Catholic site BTW) was just unbearable. I took the high road, as I have had to do a lot, but I so wanted to just rip into her.

What did you think of the article?

The article was full of the normal stuff and slanted toward religious people. Like when ken Ham kept mentioning the inventor of the MRI believes the earth is 6000 years old and the Flintstones is a documentary, during his debate with Bill Nye.

You have some amazing patience tho. Hug


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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09-11-2014, 01:29 AM
RE: SIL still making me nauseated
(08-11-2014 10:52 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  I am just gonna respond to that article for ya.


Quote:While many people think of Galileo being unfairly persecuted by the Church, they tend to forget the peculiar circumstances of these events and the fact that he remained Catholic and that his daughter became a nun.

That is because they gave him the option to stop doing science, and stop trying to tell people that the world was not the center of the universe which was in the bible back then before they changed it, or be executed. HARDLY a choice between those two things. Galileo WAS persecution.

Quote:Pop-culture atheists such as Richard Dawkins revel in pointing out the Church’s supposed hatred of science, scientists and free thought, but they come up short when asked for more examples.

This is a flat out fucking LIE! Stem Cell research was Banned from being given any government funds and almost outright banned altogether by George Bush who used religious reasons for the ban. Not to mention that there was a massive Catholic uprising against it. Not to mention the pockets of fighting between religious people and science that has anything to do with the universe.

I mean fuck! What do you call Intelligent Design? That is more than just some people getting their ideologies pushed into schools and trying to pass it off as science. They constantly persecute against scientists by having elaborate sermons with children, brainwashing them to distrust science and to hate it altogether and never trust a scientist or science.

Faith healing? Do I need to keep going on? FUCK!



Quote:In reality, modern science was invented by observant Catholics, a timely topic to consider as the Church observes the Nov. 15 feast day of St. Albert the Great, the 13th-century German Dominican (and mentor of St. Thomas Aquinas), who wrote a compendium of all knowledge in which he explored natural science, logic, rhetoric, mathematics, astronomy, ethics, economics, politics and metaphysics. Albert is the patron saint of scientists and researchers of the natural sciences.
Bitch please! The one and only thing in scientific history that Thomas Aquinas ever did that was noteworthy was absolutely nothing. He is not remembered by a single historian for ever doing anything in the fields of logic, rhetoric, or science or mathematics. The one and only thing he has ever, or will ever be remembered for actually doing is the 5 proofs of god which has been so thoroughly debunked as being one of the most retarded proofs that god exists that its laughable when someone brings it up in an actual debate.



Quote:The Church and Scientists
In the Middle Ages, most, if not all, European scientists were Catholic priests, including Father Nicholas Copernicus, who confirmed the heliocentric theory, which states that Earth and the other planets revolve around the sun.

You mean the middle ages that were only called the middle ages because the middle ages consisted of Catholic controlled territory?

oh...and here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giordano_Bruno


Quote:In addition, Jesuit Msgr. Georges Lemaître, not Albert Einstein, was the one who created the “Big Bang” theory in 1933.

“There is no conflict between religion and science,” he said.

(The term “Big Bang” was recommended by atheist-physicist Fred Hoyle, who opposed Msgr. Lemaître’s theory.)


Science does not conflict with religion? Einstein lived in a much different time. If he know even half the stuff we do today. Than he would never had said that. He died 59 years ago. Almost everything he did does not apply in today's world. Einstein is irrelevant. All his ideas and discoveries are because they had either been debunked or expanded on so much that the expansion on them outweighs the original start they gave us.


Quote:In addition, more than 40 of the moon’s craters are named after Jesuit astronomers. These were named by the scientists who mapped the moon about 20 years after the Galileo trial.

So? What is your point? The planets were named after Greek Gods. What the fucking hell point are you even attempting to try and get at here?


Quote:“Belief in God as the Creator is not an obstacle [to science]. Why should belief that the universe has a Creator stand in the way of science?

Yes, yes it is. To be more accurate. When a scientist tries to push their beliefs through their science is when it becomes detrimental to their work. Why do you think no one on the planet takes creationism scientists seriously? You cannot mix faith and superstition with science and logic. They are not even polar opposites. They are both on different planets.

Quote:Why should it in any way cause problems for science, if scientists understand their research, their discoveries and the theories they evolve, their comprehension of relationships as ‘studying the book of creation’?” stated Cardinal Christoph Schönborn in Chance or Purpose?

Because the book of creation....is..not.....science?
Do you even know what science actually IS? I don't think you do.

Quote:Even Louis Pasteur, “father of bacteriology,” said, “Science brings men nearer to God. The more I study nature, the more I stand amazed at the Creator’s work.”

Yeah good for him. Most of the time when a scientist speaks about the mind of god like that, they are being poetic. Not literal. Even if he was, again, different time period and lack of understanding of what we know now. There is nothing in science that suggests a creator. Nothing, at all, period. The, fucking, end. Now fuck off you snake oil salesmen.


Quote:The French chemist, epidemiologist and microbiologist created the rabies vaccine and the pasteurization process, and he developed the “germ theory of disease.” His research reduced mortality from puerperal fever. He was a devout Catholic and was particularly dedicated to the Rosary.

Good for him! That was all good things. His faith had nothing to do with his science work though. So what relevance is it that he was Catholic? Would it make any difference at all if he still did all that and had been a Buddhist or atheist or a Islamic man? It would not had mattered what his faith was.


Quote:The Catechism of the Catholic Church states: “Though faith is above reason, there can never be any real discrepancy between faith and reason. Since the same God who reveals mysteries and infuses faith has bestowed the light of reason on the human mind, God cannot deny himself, nor can truth ever contradict truth.

This is just downright stupid. So, basically what I am getting from this is that we cannot know anything without god, therefor since I know god does not exist god gave me the knowledge that he does not exist because he does not exist therefor he does not exist to give me the reasoning in the first place which means the "light of reason" must had come from another source which can only be from myself.....TADA! I just broke your logic with itself.

Quote:Consequently, methodical research in all branches of knowledge, provided it is carried out in a truly scientific manner and does not override moral laws, can never conflict with the faith, because the things of the world and the things of faith derive from the same God. The humble and persevering investigator of the secrets of nature is being led, as it were, by the hand of God in spite of himself, for it is God, the conserver of all things, who made them what they are”

Can someone translate this into something I can understand?


Quote:Of Darwin and Mendel
As to the theory of evolution, despite what atheist-revisionists try to pass off, though Charles Darwin (1809-1882) presented an interesting theory as to the natural development of living creatures from simple forms to more complex ones (which coincidently mirrors nearly exactly the Genesis account), he was incapable of providing the mechanism by which information about an individual animal’s survival is passed onto succeeding generations.


...just...fuck off would ya?

Does this do it? I really don't want to do the rest.

I went to give you a rep point for this, but I'd already done that. This was awesome. Bowing

"If there's a single thing that life teaches us, it's that wishing doesn't make it so." - Lev Grossman
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09-11-2014, 01:30 AM
RE: SIL still making me nauseated
I believe the Internet is Holy and that because all matter including us is made of the same atoms and energy as everything else which essentially is just a copy of all other energy and atoms of the same kind that makes copying and disseminating information sacred and right.

If I invented the perfectly functioning Quantum Computer, would what I believe in make any difference if I didn't believe it when people look at what I invented in the first place?

No, it would not. It does not make a tinge of a difference what you believe in when you invent something like the MRI or Quantum Computer etc. What a person believes has no impact on the invention itself.


My Youtube channel if anyone is interested.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEkRdbq...rLEz-0jEHQ
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09-11-2014, 06:41 AM
RE: SIL still making me nauseated
No one can spin history like the Roman Catholic Church.

Your SIL would get along famously with my parents. I have my own parent's e-mails go straight to the "trash" and have blocked any e-mails cc'd from them as they love to copypasta all the religious bullshit from their friends.

Mind you I first ignored them, then took enormous amounts of time to debunk and respond (this only made matters worse) and finally I sent a very nice letter that in essence said:

"Dear Mom & Dad,
You know I love you but from now on all your e-mails will be deleted without being read. If you want to talk to me please call me on the phone."

They still send me religious crap but it all goes into the e-mail trash. Before I delete I check to see if any are actually authored by them and not cc'd, those not cc'd I'll open and take a quick glance at.

I had to accept the fact that nothing I said would change their minds and only made them try harder to "save" me. We have reached a détente where in person religion is not to be discussed and this has unstrained our relationship. We reached this uneasy truce after I let them know that if they brought up religion in any conversation I would simply say my goodbyes and leave, this happened twice, one at their home and once in a restaurant, this reminded them of the "rules of disengagement", no religious talk, ever.

Maybe this can work with your SIL assuming you want to have a peaceful relationship with her and her with you.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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09-11-2014, 07:07 AM
RE: SIL still making me nauseated
Charles Darwin (1809-1882) presented an interesting theory as to the natural development of living creatures from simple forms to more complex ones (which coincidently coincidentally mirrors nearly exactly the Genesis account)

Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being

dust and breath to man, seems legitDrinking Beverage
Can't get any 'simpler' than that

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
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09-11-2014, 07:13 AM
RE: SIL still making me nauseated
As Shadow Fox noted, all of the scientific advancements came about when they set aside their faith and followed the actual evidence. Whether or not their faith inspired them to look, they only succeeded when they ignored it. Ask SIL for an example of a discovery that was made and verified as a result of faith or belief.

That also discounts the idea that at the time being a professed atheist, or even a doubter, would likely strip you of any chance to pursue your work. What any of the people mentioned actually believed is a guess. They also had much less information to work with so what any of them would believe today is also just a guess.

Ask her why belief in a god among members of the National Academy for Science has dropped to less than 10% in the last century. The combination of greater understanding of the universe and fewer consequences for disbelief today seems to me to be a fairer view than citing the beliefs of medieval scholars.

Searching for scientists and religious affiliation will turn up many articles with the numbers; one sample: https://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/sci_relig.htm

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09-11-2014, 08:00 AM
RE: SIL still making me nauseated
I made a deity tester to cut through all of their theist BS. It consists of a cardboard disk that sits upon a conical plastic tube. All the deity has to do is move the disk 90, 180 or 270 degrees within a ten second period after an invocation of prayer. If it moves according to instruction, I will consider the possibility that a deity is real.

[Image: Deitytester20_zps000c1cdc.jpg]

Now pray your asses off theists and see if your god can twist a little cardboard disk 90 degrees.
He created the universe and parted the Red Sea right? So why would this be a challenge?

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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09-11-2014, 08:04 AM
RE: SIL still making me nauseated
(09-11-2014 08:00 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  I made a deity tester to cut through all of their theist BS. It consists of a cardboard disk that sits upon a conical plastic tube. All the deity has to do is move the disk 90, 180 or 270 degrees within a ten second period after an invocation of prayer. If it moves according to instruction, I will consider the possibility that a deity is real.

[Image: Deitytester20_zps000c1cdc.jpg]

Now pray your asses off theists and see if your god can twist a little cardboard disk 90 degrees.
He created the universe and parted the Red Sea right? So why would this be a challenge?

Well, Yahweh was powerless against iron chariots, maybe he's got a problem with corrugated cardboard. Consider

Who knows? Mysterious ways and all that. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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09-11-2014, 09:37 AM
RE: SIL still making me nauseated
I have to admit I did write my mother a lengthy FB message regarding the religious emails. As most of you like to do, I choose to put the shoe on the other foot so they can see what if feels like on my end. I asked her how she would feel if I chose to write those same family members and tell them my feelings and POV, saying such things as, "I was sorry to hear of Aunt Mary's death. I hope she took advantage of this one life and didn't waste any time praying to a man-made mythical deity in the sky or spend any of her hard-earned money lining the pockets of the deceptive and unethical church leaders."

While she got the message, she still felt it was her responsibility to save me, and I told her I wouldn't want to spend eternity doing anything. And I assured her that hell was non-existent and I could prove it to her if she gave me 10 minutes, all she has to do is ask.

As for my SIL, we did sort of agree to not talk about it anymore (months ago), which is why I was so shocked she sent me this link. I think the upcoming holidays embolden the religious nuts, either that or they are so drunk from sacramental wine they forget their pacts.

Check out my now-defunct atheism blog. It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
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Atheism promotes critical thinking; theism promotes hypocritical thinking. -- Me
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