STOP Government Marriage!!!
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02-07-2013, 05:12 AM
STOP Government Marriage!!!
So, I would consider myself a Libertarian, if there ever was one.

I have never understood peoples stance on Gay marriage.
From the side of straight people. Government uses marriage as a stick and sometimes a carrot to push or lead you in certain directions you might not freely want to be. It gives government control and worse, congressional control over you finances through taxes(stick/carrot) based on your status. Sometimes being married is better, sometimes single. This is "Discrimination".

The bigger question is why on earth would Gay people be fighting to spread this government discrimination through their group. I will tell you(and they are wrong), so that they to can have the carrot..

Both sides of gay marriage are fighting for the wrong thing. They should be together, fighting to stop all government sanctioned marriage, along with all federal laws applying to federal marriage.

So It goes like this. Uncle Sam, I know you have been hitting me with that stick, can we give you another stick for your other hand, that way we can all be beaten equally?

What is everyone else thinking?

T.H.
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02-07-2013, 06:40 AM
RE: STOP Government Marriage!!!
Reality is reality. You have to live in it.

When your mate of 30 years' standing lies in the hospital fighting for his/her life, and you are not allowed to see them, nor will the docs give you current information, you'll wish you had gotten married.

When s/he then dies and the government takes all the money and leaves you pennyless in the streets, you'll wish you would have been married.

Fighting against these rules is good and fine and right, but it isn't going to help you when you face the reality of things.

Always fight for the ideal, but cover your ass because, damn, life can hurt bad if you don't.

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02-07-2013, 08:20 AM
RE: STOP Government Marriage!!!
So you seem to be arguing against public recognition of private relationships on principle. I can understand that viewpoint. But it's not going to accomplish anything...

There would, perforce, be rules in place regarding things like inheritance, custody, and visitation regardless. Absent some public recognition of those relationships, how would these be decided?
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02-07-2013, 08:39 AM
RE: STOP Government Marriage!!!
I will have been married for 40 years this August, but we have not lived together for the last 13 years yet we remain married. I do not want any confusion about the women who bore me two children rights to both a portion of my retirement and my social security monies and other monies and likewise she does not.

T.H. I understand and for the most part support your position, but we must deal with the realities of existent laws and marriage is one of them.

If the collective (or whatever you want to call it) understood and honored our responsibilities and our concerns for long term mates than the need for legal marriage would be mute. In the current legal system marriage becomes a necessity for some.

My apologies to cjlr as I more or less duplicated his post.
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02-07-2013, 08:43 AM
RE: STOP Government Marriage!!!
You're right, but gay marriage is more of a means to an end. First level the play field and then go for improvements. It's irrational and inefficient, it's also very human Tongue

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02-07-2013, 10:23 AM
RE: STOP Government Marriage!!!
I think they are thinking they are in love and want to spend the rest of their lives together and lets face it there are legal advanatages to being married - its not a bad deal all around.

Marriage did not work out for me because I chose my partner poorly but I still believe the custom of marriage has merit in todays society. If I fell in love with someone of the same sex then I would expect to have the same opportunity that I did in my first go at it.
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02-07-2013, 10:26 AM
RE: STOP Government Marriage!!!
(02-07-2013 08:39 AM)JAH Wrote:  My apologies to cjlr as I more or less duplicated his post.

Nah. S'cool.
Cool
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02-07-2013, 01:51 PM
RE: STOP Government Marriage!!!
(02-07-2013 05:12 AM)T.H. Wrote:  This is "Discrimination".

Discrimination is being treated and recognized as a second class citizen. That's discrimination.

I'm sure if black people were told to sit in their own section during sporting events, you'd be railing against the civil rights movement for not focusing on stopping the spending on stadiums or sports teams.

I just hope the best case scenario is that you're just missing the point here entirely, and aren't harbouring ulterior motives.
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02-07-2013, 02:23 PM
RE: STOP Government Marriage!!!
(02-07-2013 01:51 PM)PoolBoyG Wrote:  
(02-07-2013 05:12 AM)T.H. Wrote:  This is "Discrimination".

Discrimination is being treated and recognized as a second class citizen. That's discrimination.

I'm sure if black people were told to sit in their own section during sporting events, you'd be railing against the civil rights movement for not focusing on stopping the spending on stadiums or sports teams.

I just hope the best case scenario is that you're just missing the point here entirely, and aren't harbouring ulterior motives.

No, he's taking a very libertarian position here and one I agree with in principle just not in practice. The problem with this position is the sheer size of the institution as a legal matter. Something like 300,000 separate laws and statutes in the united states, everything from how you can file taxes and what deductions you are eligible for to Emergency power of attorney and how estate taxes are applied after the death of one partner. To gain the same benefits without the tax issues would require one to enter into something like a legal Partnership with extensive addendums and provisos .

Removal of Government from marriage could be done but there is just not the will to do it as for the most part it is a favorable position intentionally given perks as the government see's having it's citizens married as a net positive. If you were starting over with a minimum government approach then not giving perks for behavior would be a legitimate stance but trying to change an institution that is millenniums old and has always been a state governed property transaction (the merging of 2 citizens into a single unit as far as taxes and certain laws are concerned) without a majority of public support would be simply tilting at windmills.

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02-07-2013, 02:50 PM
RE: STOP Government Marriage!!!
GOVernment marriage?

Consider N. Korea and Vietnam should tie the not Big Grin Who could we find for France?

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