STOP Government Marriage!!!
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09-07-2013, 09:47 AM
RE: STOP Government Marriage!!!
(09-07-2013 09:39 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 07:45 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  You don't understand the point of analogies, do you?

It was a very clunky explanation but he is right, albeit totally lacking in tact. My reasoning behind this is the same as why I don't think churches should get tax exemptions, I don't believe it is the governments place to decide what is morally acceptable for it's citizens it should always be the reverse. The US government gives preferential treatment to people who are Married, have children, and donate to their church, through tax deductions and subsidies thereby showing favor to those actions. The Libertarian position is simply that the Government should not do so.

Here is the point I was trying make (but apparently failed to). Essentially nothing changed about the relationship I had with my wife after we got married. Except one very important part, we have agreed to help one another in not only a financial sense, but also in health as well. We don't really have 2 separate pools of money. We don't really split rent between the 2 of us or split utilities and groceries. Our agreement in marriage is to pool our resources. We behave in a financial sense as one entity. Is it fair to tax that single pool of money, as if it were 2?

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09-07-2013, 09:51 AM
RE: STOP Government Marriage!!!
(09-07-2013 09:47 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 09:39 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  It was a very clunky explanation but he is right, albeit totally lacking in tact. My reasoning behind this is the same as why I don't think churches should get tax exemptions, I don't believe it is the governments place to decide what is morally acceptable for it's citizens it should always be the reverse. The US government gives preferential treatment to people who are Married, have children, and donate to their church, through tax deductions and subsidies thereby showing favor to those actions. The Libertarian position is simply that the Government should not do so.

Here is the point I was trying make (but apparently failed to). Essentially nothing changed about the relationship I had with my wife after we got married. Except one very important part, we have agreed to help one another in not only a financial sense, but also in health as well. We don't really have 2 separate pools of money. We don't really split rent between the 2 of us or split utilities and groceries. Our agreement in marriage is to pool our resources. We behave in a financial sense as one entity. Is it fair to tax that single pool of money, as if it were 2?

Is it fair to tax two people in your situation who have been living together for years differently just because they don't have that piece of paper?

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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09-07-2013, 10:02 AM
RE: STOP Government Marriage!!!
(09-07-2013 09:51 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 09:47 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Here is the point I was trying make (but apparently failed to). Essentially nothing changed about the relationship I had with my wife after we got married. Except one very important part, we have agreed to help one another in not only a financial sense, but also in health as well. We don't really have 2 separate pools of money. We don't really split rent between the 2 of us or split utilities and groceries. Our agreement in marriage is to pool our resources. We behave in a financial sense as one entity. Is it fair to tax that single pool of money, as if it were 2?

Is it fair to tax two people in your situation who have been living together for years differently just because they don't have that piece of paper?

If they have not made the decision to enter into that legal relationship then yes.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
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09-07-2013, 10:04 AM
RE: STOP Government Marriage!!!
People seem to shy away from entering into marriage on the grounds of "we might split later" and they think that a divorce will always end ugly. That is what a prenup is for. If the concern is that the legal contract binds you in a way you are not comfortable with, either don't enter into it, or use a prenup to sort that potential complication out.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
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09-07-2013, 10:04 AM
RE: STOP Government Marriage!!!
(09-07-2013 10:02 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 09:51 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Is it fair to tax two people in your situation who have been living together for years differently just because they don't have that piece of paper?

If they have not made the decision to enter into that legal relationship then yes.

Why is it the governments responsibility to dictate which is the preferable situation?

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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09-07-2013, 10:05 AM
RE: STOP Government Marriage!!!
(09-07-2013 10:04 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 10:02 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  If they have not made the decision to enter into that legal relationship then yes.

Why is it the governments responsibility to dictate which is the preferable situation?

The government isn't deciding. The individuals are. The government would be deciding if it defined marriage as 2 people living together.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
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09-07-2013, 10:08 AM
RE: STOP Government Marriage!!!
(09-07-2013 10:05 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 10:04 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Why is it the governments responsibility to dictate which is the preferable situation?

The government isn't deciding. The individuals are. The government would be deciding if it defined marriage as 2 people living together.

No, the government is subsidizing one choice over another. In both cases we have two people in a long term committed relationship, but because one of the couples has had their status approved by the government they are entitled to a myriad of benefits denied the other couple who, as Logica suggested did not get a government marriage.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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09-07-2013, 10:08 AM
RE: STOP Government Marriage!!!
The government is honoring a contract that 2 individuals enter into. It is not mandating that they enter into it.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
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09-07-2013, 10:12 AM
RE: STOP Government Marriage!!!
(09-07-2013 10:08 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 10:05 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  The government isn't deciding. The individuals are. The government would be deciding if it defined marriage as 2 people living together.

No, the government is subsidizing one choice over another. In both cases we have two people in a long term committed relationship, but because one of the couples has had their status approved by the government they are entitled to a myriad of benefits denied the other couple who, as Logica suggested did not get a government marriage.

The way I see it is this. A couple has a choice about their relationship in a financial sense. One way is to keep resources separate and behave in an official sense as 2 separate entities. Another is to pool their resources to aid in the benefit of each and behave financially as one entity.

They then have the choice of entering into a contract for the latter decision that would make that both legally binding, and have the government treat their pooled resources as a single entity.

The government isn't giving favor to one choice over the other. The individuals are choosing one choice over another based off of their assessment of their situation.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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09-07-2013, 10:16 AM
RE: STOP Government Marriage!!!
(09-07-2013 10:12 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 10:08 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  No, the government is subsidizing one choice over another. In both cases we have two people in a long term committed relationship, but because one of the couples has had their status approved by the government they are entitled to a myriad of benefits denied the other couple who, as Logica suggested did not get a government marriage.

The way I see it is this. A couple has a choice about their relationship in a financial sense. One way is to keep resources separate and behave in an official sense as 2 separate entities. Another is to pool their resources to aid in the benefit of each and behave financially as one entity.

They then have the choice of entering into a contract for the latter decision that would make that both legally binding, and have the government treat their pooled resources as a single entity.

The government isn't giving favor to one choice over the other. The individuals are choosing one choice over another based off of their assessment of their situation.

This is why I said it is unrealistic to think you could ever remove government from marriage. Even when the facts are laid out most people still prefer their benefits to a more fair system and since it's not granting benefits to a group but rather removing them it becomes an impossible task.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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