Sacred undergarments not just for the Mormons
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07-09-2015, 07:01 AM
RE: Sacred undergarments not just for the Mormons
(06-09-2015 11:58 PM)Aliza Wrote:  If a man wants to wear a tallit, or a Mormon feels better in their church-sanctioned undergarments, then just remember that they're not hurting anyone else.

And while secular people may be making fun of religious people for their way of dress, religious people are not returning the favor. Walk into any shul, Sandee, and you'll find a basket of kippot and a rack of tallit because they know that not everyone is wearing these items, and these people are still welcome to daven with the minyan. They'll even loan you their tefillin and they won't care if you don't have a beard or payot.

... No, I just don't understand making fun of people's religious attire.

Aliza,

Thank you for an extremely well-put response. I didn't mean anyone should make fun of the garments.

In fact I mention the Jewish tallit katan simply to show that Mormons are not the only group with special undergarments. (Although I doubt a Jewish man would consider the tallit as having any special powers)

And you're totally right about the rack of kippot and tallit.

However, not all Jews are tolerant of what I would wear. There are many instances of women in Israel and Brooklyn, NY being hassled for having their upper arms exposed while walking on the street.
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07-09-2015, 07:09 AM
RE: Sacred undergarments not just for the Mormons
(07-09-2015 12:13 AM)Nurse Wrote:  I'm perfectly comfortable making fun of magic underwear, whether I'm ridiculing it at work or at home or out to dinner with friends. Typically I'm wearing my non-magical, sexy underwear, that certainly isn't laughable (I, too, am acquainted with Ms. Victoria's Secret) when I find myself with a partner wearing nothing but my underwear. If I start stripping you down and find magic Mormon long undies, I'm gonna laugh or look at you like you're fucking insane, it's gonna ruin the moment, and nobody's getting laid. Shame.

As far as religious people not making fun of underwear - these are the same people that practice bigotry and slut shaming and are why I have to stay in the closet about how I think their beliefs are a hot steaming pile of bullshit.

What part of wearing magic Mormon underwear is not social pressure? Their groupies think if you don't wear it you're sinning against a magical sky fairy and that you've defiled yourself, you dirty little ho. Give me a break. Rolleyes

In your career, have you ever come across someone's underwear that made you laugh? In trauma or whatnot. I have to imagine that some ER personnel have had a man come in and in the course of treating him, find Ms. Secret.

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07-09-2015, 07:19 AM
RE: Sacred undergarments not just for the Mormons
(07-09-2015 07:09 AM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  
(07-09-2015 12:13 AM)Nurse Wrote:  I'm perfectly comfortable making fun of magic underwear, whether I'm ridiculing it at work or at home or out to dinner with friends. Typically I'm wearing my non-magical, sexy underwear, that certainly isn't laughable (I, too, am acquainted with Ms. Victoria's Secret) when I find myself with a partner wearing nothing but my underwear. If I start stripping you down and find magic Mormon long undies, I'm gonna laugh or look at you like you're fucking insane, it's gonna ruin the moment, and nobody's getting laid. Shame.

As far as religious people not making fun of underwear - these are the same people that practice bigotry and slut shaming and are why I have to stay in the closet about how I think their beliefs are a hot steaming pile of bullshit.

What part of wearing magic Mormon underwear is not social pressure? Their groupies think if you don't wear it you're sinning against a magical sky fairy and that you've defiled yourself, you dirty little ho. Give me a break. Rolleyes

In your career, have you ever come across someone's underwear that made you laugh? In trauma or whatnot. I have to imagine that some ER personnel have had a man come in and in the course of treating him, find Ms. Secret.

Not so much laughing at the lingerie he was wearing, but at the trauma surgeon for having to remove the vibrator lodged up the guys ass. It was memorable. As was the stripper that still had on her green tassel pasties - the reaction was more of a "huh. Interesting."

As far as the cliche wear clean underwear in case you're in a wreck - nobody cares. We cut it off pretty quickly, and depending on the circumstance, you might pee or poop them anyway.


I tried not to use medical jargon. Smile

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07-09-2015, 08:58 AM
RE: Sacred undergarments not just for the Mormons
(07-09-2015 12:13 AM)Nurse Wrote:  Typically I'm wearing my non-magical, sexy underwear, that certainly isn't laughable (I, too, am acquainted with Ms. Victoria's Secret) when I find myself with a partner wearing nothing but my underwear. If I start stripping you down and find magic Mormon long undies, I'm gonna laugh or look at you like you're fucking insane, it's gonna ruin the moment, and nobody's getting laid. Shame.

If you get in bed with someone who didn’t think to tell you that they’re a religious Mormon, take comfort in the knowledge that that person wasn’t a “keeper” to begin with. Smile

(07-09-2015 12:36 AM)morondog Wrote:  It's like that pic of a sabbath elevator someone posted the other day, that stops on every floor *just to prevent the devout from having to exercise their little finger one tiny bit* because they might want to go up or down a floor on the sabbath, but *LORD* forbid that they should ever press a lift button. Rolleyes Why wouldn't one who does not have your faith laugh at something like that?

Uh…. Well played, Morondog. I can completely appreciate how a Shabbos elevator must look to an outsider. I recall this one Jamaican guy who revealed to me that he lived in a mostly a Chassidic apartment building for a year, and that the Chassids would step into the elevator with him and stare at him until he asked them what floor they wanted. =)

What can I say? We do weird things, and many of us have no idea how everyone perceives us.

(07-09-2015 06:34 AM)Cosmic Discourse Wrote:  If you aren't wearing your garments when attending or participating in temple ceremonies, then you're barred from taking part in the Mormon makeshift Freemason rituals (a form of restriction/qualification).

So yeah, I stated that if people are being denied access to religious services because they didn’t wear temple garments, then I would change my stance. I’ll grant that I don’t exactly live in Mormon country, and I don’t really encounter Mormons (like ever), but I’ve seen them on TV! It seems so unfathomable to me to have people checking other people’s underwear…. But if that’s really what’s happening, then I would say that’s really messed up.
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07-09-2015, 09:12 AM
RE: Sacred undergarments not just for the Mormons
(06-09-2015 11:58 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(06-09-2015 10:26 AM)sandeecohen Wrote:  I'm currently listening to the audio book of Sacred Cows. Seth missed the opportunity to include mention of Tallit Katan – The Sacred Undergarment of Judaism.

This is a rectangular cloth with a hole cut in the middle. Then there are four fringes or "tzitzit" at each corner.

Orthodox and Hassidic (Haredi) Jewish men wear this garment under their street clothes but above an undershirt. (The Tallit Katan is not supposed to touch the skin.)

The four tzitzit extend out from under the clothing.

It is said that showing these tzitzit is a way of identifying a man as Jewish. But there are plenty of other indicators including a kippah (yarmulke), payot (sidelocks), and a full beard.

I never understood the argument against Mormon underwear. Whether you excuse the items as religious or cultural in nature, one group of people wearing these things doesn't affect anyone else. More often than not, it's a personal choice to wear these items, and not even a result of social pressure. -I will change my stance if I find out that people's undergarments are being inspected for compliance against their wishes, or if people are being barred from participating in their religious services for failing to comply with religious attire expectations.

If a man wants to wear a tallit, or a Mormon feels better in their church-sanctioned undergarments, then just remember that they're not hurting anyone else.

And while secular people may be making fun of religious people for their way of dress, religious people are not returning the favor. Walk into any shul, Sandee, and you'll find a basket of kippot and a rack of tallit because they know that not everyone is wearing these items, and these people are still welcome to daven with the minyan. They'll even loan you their tefillin and they won't care if you don't have a beard or payot.

... No, I just don't understand making fun of people's religious attire.

Clothes are clothes, but if someone tells me their covering has woo sewn into it I'm laughing at the stitching that's occurred in their brains. It's not the clothing as much as the ridiculous idea(s) behind why they wear it.
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07-09-2015, 09:21 AM (This post was last modified: 07-09-2015 09:45 AM by Anjele.)
RE: Sacred undergarments not just for the Mormons
I think that there are traditions, not just religious in nature, all over that seem odd to people who aren't familiar with them.

I grew up Catholic but didn't really understand what was meant my transubstantiation until long after I left the church. I thought it was all pretend, not that people really believed that that the communion wafer and wine really turned into the actual body and blood of Christ - how creepy is that?

Since I am not a Scientologist - the concept of Xenu and thetans and the whole story is baffling. I can't believe there are people who actually accept this as reality.

I am sure there are traditions in other countries and in different parts of the same country that seem peculiar to an outsider. It's not like pointing and laughing, it's more about hearing about something for the first time that is so foreign and unfamiliar that you lack a frame of reference.

Not having been raised in the south but moving there later, I came across some things that struck me as odd, some at first, some still do. I went to a family gathering with my husband and while walking around the table to get our food I stood behind him and quietly asked...what is that? ...what is that? Bowls of greens - um - no thanks...told my husband we mow stuff that looks like that where I come from, we don't eat it. We shall not discuss 'chitlins'.

I think it's fine to post information about traditions that are specific to a group. Had I ever seen a Tallit Katan I would not have had any idea what it was, until the OP explained it.

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07-09-2015, 09:49 AM
RE: Sacred undergarments not just for the Mormons
Silly clothes are silly clothes. Drinking Beverage

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07-09-2015, 10:02 AM (This post was last modified: 07-09-2015 06:30 PM by Aliza.)
RE: Sacred undergarments not just for the Mormons
(07-09-2015 07:01 AM)sandeecohen Wrote:  However, not all Jews are tolerant of what I would wear. There are many instances of women in Israel and Brooklyn, NY being hassled for having their upper arms exposed while walking on the street.

I’m opposed to religious fundamentalism of all stripes. When fundamentalism negatively impacts people within the community, a line has clearly been crossed and the activity must be addressed. When fundamentalism negatively impacts people outside the community, a public outcry and possible legal action are called for.

There should be organized parades of women who march through the streets of Flatbush, Boro Park, Crown Heights and any other Chassidic community who refuses to play nicely with the rest of the world. There will be uncovered elbows and knees, bare backs, exposed midriffs, and low cut tops. Every time the harassment begins, the ladies return. Possibly each time with increasingly more skin exposed.
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07-09-2015, 11:59 PM
RE: Sacred undergarments not just for the Mormons
I quite like national dress and / or religious dress though. I laugh at the idea that God cares what you wear but I find it kinda cute that people like to dress in a specific way. Over here in SA we get lots of people who wear very smart uniforms for going to church, and there's a huge sect of people... I can't remember the name of their church... who wear a little green symbol over their heart, who are followers of a Genuine™ Prophet who lives up in the North. While it's all woo, there is a tangible benefit to them from membership of the organisation - at some point the Prophet said unto them something along the lines of "Ye shall help each other the fuck out", and a lot of poorer people belong to the sect, so it's actually pretty cool. Fuck everyone who doesn't have a symbol though Tongue

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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08-09-2015, 02:55 PM
RE: Sacred undergarments not just for the Mormons
(07-09-2015 07:01 AM)sandeecohen Wrote:  In fact I mention the Jewish tallit katan simply to show that Mormons are not the only group with special undergarments. (Although I doubt a Jewish man would consider the tallit as having any special powers)
Symbols(and garments are symbols) do not have special power by themselves. But sometimes symbols can have power. Symbols remind us about promises we make to God(when we forget). So, power in this:
Power of symbols in helping us to learn, to understand better, to remember better.

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