Saint or Monster?
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13-07-2015, 06:42 AM
Rainbow RE: Saint or Monster?
(12-07-2015 12:28 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Shelly - We're pretty informal and laid-back, in here. Respectfully, though you sound as intelligent as anyone here, your highly stilted and formal tone, as well as the patterns that gave the appearance of "human pretending to be a bot" are deeply off-putting to us regular humans. Wink

I think if you try loosening up a bit, in here, you will find your transition to acceptance in the group is smoother than it may seem to be going right now (or at least, how it appears to be going, from my outside POV), and that we will respond more frequently to your insightful ideas. I like the list you posted above, and think it is most definitely worth a discussion, but I keep talking myself out of responding because I just don't want to deal with the artifice of your formal politeness. That is why I asked if it was a cultural thing, for you, since I could force myself to adjust if that turned out to be the case, rather than simply a personality quirk that made interaction with you more difficult.

TTA is a great forum, and we cover many deep and interesting topics. It's certainly about free exchange of ideas as well as often fierce debate, where the goal is not "to win", as you said before, but to better-establish that your premises are valid and your logic solid. Then we all win, because part of the atheist mindset is acceptance of the scientific method, which is based on skepticism, testing, peer-review, and most importantly, changing one's mind when one is proven wrong by said peers.

So relax! We're pretty friendly around here, overall, I think you'll find, but still very human... I'm not sure the latter is a compliment. I'll tag that one as "neutral descriptor" in my mental tally-book.

Rocketsurgeon76, you sound as if you are the spokesperson for the entire forum. You are not! If I were being judgemental, you would sound to me, condescending, bigoted, egocentric, patronising, and a kind of intellectual dishonesty I can't quite put my finger on, yet. But I'm not judgemental. Wink If my formal politeness seem to you as deceitful, dishonest, disarming, or hubotlike, and this pettiness prevents you from engaging in any meaningful or insightful conversation, then move on, I WILL MANAGE! As I have said before, my intention is to attract those people who do not need to set behavioural or cultural prerequisites, before they will address the topic.

It is also my belief that we are nothing more than expressions of our genes. What we learn, and how we learn through our senses, will determine how those genes will be expressed. This is why I don't personally JUDGE a persons behaviour, anymore then I would JUDGE a person racially. In other words, people can't help what they are, and can't be what they're not.

I have many topics that I want to discuss, including, The true power of One; Multi- vs. Uni-national societies, Government control and the Masses, Positive Effects of Price Freezing, How religion poisons the masses, and many others.

I will admit, I do spend an inordinate amount of time trying to avoid ambiguity and misunderstanding in my writing, so it may appear 'stilted' and 'formal'. It is very important to me that I am as clear and as accurate as I can be. The language I use is not for PhD candidates, nor is it for 10th graders. It is for adults, adults with well- formed and well-thought-out ideas, and a wiliness to share and learn. The rest.....!
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13-07-2015, 07:32 AM
RE: Saint or Monster?
Wow... that's borderline insane. I suppose I should beg your forgiveness in trying to offer a newbie (since I am also something of a newbie and have spent that time trying to learn some of the informal social rules that govern every site, including this one) some advice on how to fit in here, in order to better-engage with the "audience", as you clearly wish to do.

And in return, I get "intellectual dishonesty?"

That may be the single worst insult you could offer me. The others in your list are not far behind. If I had been any of those things, I would beg forgiveness, but I did not, nor was I trying to do so. I should not have to explain this! Clearly, many other board members saw the same traits in you, or they would not have said the same things I said about "bot-like". Take a quick moment to review the other responses you got, similar to my own, and then search the board for anyone else who got such a response. Clearly, the issue here is you.

I have some sympathy for your plight. My own Beloved, who is highly intelligent and charming to those who know her, has similar issues in trying to interact with new/strange people, as she does not have much skill for "naturally sniffing-out" underlying social constructs/rules in new groups (which most people do without thinking about it), and thus she will avoid the groups, and will come across as overly formal and cold when pressed to do so. So I do my best to help smooth the transition, when she must interact in that way. I am not disrespecting her when I do so, nor patronizing; it is only a recognition that some people lack "natural" social skills that most of us take for granted. Given the above interactions with people who were forced to ask if something was wrong with you (e.g. pretending to be a bot), I'd say it's clear that you encountered such a problem, and if you resent my attempts to befriend you and make sure you are more easily-welcomed here in this forum, it did not require a list of insults hidden behind the thin veil of "...but I'm not judging."

Obviously, you were. The only people who pull that passive-aggressive insult bullshit are Christians, when they say stuff like "Oh I don't hate the sinner, I hate the sins they commit." I cannot tell a difference, here.

I would venture to say that your decision to attack someone who was clearly trying to help you fit in more smoothly (or, as you chose to label it, "patronize" you) marks a major personality flaw that you should spend some time and some of that considerable intellect trying to analyze and correct. Because right now, it just makes you an asshole.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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13-07-2015, 08:55 AM
RE: Saint or Monster?
I am informed via PM by someone I trust that my initial post to you did come across as somewhat condescending.

For that I do apologize; it was not my intent to patronize you, but intent is less important than perception, when it comes to social interactions. I was not trying to attack you but to offer some helpful advice on how to better fit-in. I have similar issues, obviously! Tongue

Please accept my apologies for sounding like I was attacking you, in my initial post.

On the other hand, I do stand behind my comments in reply to your other, passive-aggressive set of "not judging" insults. I can come across like an emotional bull-in-a-china-shop, but I am in no way intellectually dishonest or any of the other things you said, and it was wrong for you to say so.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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13-07-2015, 09:26 AM
RE: Saint or Monster?
(13-07-2015 08:55 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  I am informed via PM by someone I trust that my initial post to you did come across as somewhat condescending.

Maybe so but from the start I found SS's style vaguely creepy and agreed with much of what you said.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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13-07-2015, 09:29 AM
RE: Saint or Monster?
How about giving people the benefit of the doubt until they 100% prove otherwise?
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13-07-2015, 10:05 AM
RE: Saint or Monster?
(13-07-2015 09:29 AM)jennybee Wrote:  How about giving people the benefit of the doubt until they 100% prove otherwise?

Respectfully, Jenny, I think we are giving the benefit of the doubt, or we wouldn't be engaging (or trying to help) at all.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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13-07-2015, 10:11 AM
RE: Saint or Monster?
By calling a new member's posts vaguely creepy and saying they should seriously think about changing their writing style to accommodate the masses?
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13-07-2015, 10:16 AM
RE: Saint or Monster?
I understand you were trying to help, but she is a new member. She'll figure things out as to what works best for her on the forum--just like we *all* did. I personally don't have a problem with her writing style. I also don't find it to be vaguely creepy.
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13-07-2015, 10:17 AM
RE: Saint or Monster?
Yes. Exactly so.

I'd say "to accommodate the masses" is a bit of a stretch, when using that phrase to describe "how to get people to not be repelled by the tone of your posts, and to actually engage with your otherwise brilliant ideas in the way that you desire".

If her goal is simply to come here and make "brilliant" statements that no one feels comfortable interacting with because they deem them "creepy" or otherwise off-putting, then there's no need to inform the poster of their social-interaction errors... or to listen to them, for that matter. But if her goal (as it seems is the case) is to share her brilliant thoughts with us and get us to bounce them around for refinement, counter-discussion, and/or edification, then yes, she needs to "accommodate the masses". That's how this works... along with every other human-interaction arena/forum.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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13-07-2015, 10:22 AM
RE: Saint or Monster?
(13-07-2015 06:42 AM)ShellShilo Wrote:  It is also my belief that we are nothing more than expressions of our genes. What we learn, and how we learn through our senses, will determine how those genes will be expressed. This is why I don't personally JUDGE a persons behaviour, anymore then I would JUDGE a person racially. In other words, people can't help what they are, and can't be what they're not.

Agreed.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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