Salvation vs. actions
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31-01-2013, 04:33 PM
RE: Salvation vs. actions
(31-01-2013 12:53 AM)Xinoftruden Wrote:  I just have one two part question. What about the jews whom god has declared his chosen people and what about the muslims who believe in jesus but not as a saviour. Your God appears to have forgotten that his only son was born a jew and that he promised salvation to all three of these religions.
God, has forgotten nothing. If you are going to talk as if you believe God exists, then lets just say it that way.
God promised salvation to all mankind. YOUR sins have already been forgiven. All you have to do is accept God's free gift of grace.
What about the Jews and Muslims? They've been forgiven, all they need to do is accept that forgiveness by believing that Jesus died on the cross to pay the penalty for their sins?
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31-01-2013, 04:34 PM
RE: Salvation vs. actions
(31-01-2013 12:53 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  I certainly hope you do not work in Law.
I worked in law enforcement for 40 years. What's your point?
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31-01-2013, 04:35 PM
RE: Salvation vs. actions
(31-01-2013 07:23 AM)pxlgirl Wrote:  Ooooh, that might be a good chance to find an answer to my question in my other thread... So please tell me, short and simple: Is God/Jesus/ or whoever else you admire real to you? By "real" I mean as a part of the natural world, for like for example, my tea cup next to me, or my comp I'm typing on, the air I breathe... I don't want to start any debate, just a clear and direct answer. Thanks! Smile
Yes. Simple enough? Tongue
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31-01-2013, 04:37 PM
RE: Salvation vs. actions
Ok so let me see if I have this correctly.

Jesus's death created a get-out-of-jail-free card for everyone who existed and will exist. This card can be used at anytime, thrown away and retrieved without effecting the user's ability to achieve salvation.

Is that correct?

When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity.

You cannot successfully determine beforehand which side of the bread to butter.
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31-01-2013, 04:41 PM
RE: Salvation vs. actions
(31-01-2013 09:57 AM)tokutter Wrote:  Booooooring.....Richard, in all sincerity, i've read some of your rants....you have no game. I do however think, with you being an ex cop , that some of those stories would be interesting. Maybe you can tell us how jesus helped you solve some crimes.
Lol Okay. I was investigating a fraud. While talking to the suspect, a woman, I discovered she considered herself a Christian. So I told her that Jesus was in the room with us, listening to every word she said and, since He is God, He knows if she is lying or not. I asked her that, knowing that, is she telling me the truth and she began crying, looked down at her lap and confessed to the fraud. I interceded on her behalf, because she was actually a poor woman (financially), with the prosecuting attorney and when she plead guilty in court, the judge sentenced her to probation, with restitution made a condition of probation. She did no jail time and was able to remain with her children and the court made her restitution payments very fair.
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31-01-2013, 04:43 PM
RE: Salvation vs. actions
(31-01-2013 12:24 PM)devilsadvoc8 Wrote:  
(31-01-2013 12:48 AM)Richard Stuckmeyer Wrote:  We need a new subject to give you guys something different to insult. We've about beat the other horses to death.

DISCLAIMER: EVERYTHING I SAY IN THIS THREAD IS MY BELIEF BASED UPON MY OPINION BASED ON WHAT I ACCEPT AS EVIDENCE.

Having said that, atheists seem to confuse two issues in the Bible. These are seperate and individual concepts. One is salvation (regarding your eternal destiny) and the other is your actions as a Christian.

ACCORDING TO MY BELIEF, salvation is based on ONE thing, faith in Jesus Christ as your Saviour. This means accepting God's free gift of grace, truly believeing that Jesus died on the cross 2000 years ago to pay the penalty for your sins. If you believe this you are born again and saved. ACCORDING TO MY BELIEF, there is nothing else you can do to be saved. Jesus is the only path to Heaven. When you are born again, the Holy Spirit puts a seal on you and you can never lose your salvation no matter what you do. Once you are saved you will not try to sin, but sin you will. You may even commit manslaughter in a fit of rage but you wont commit premeditated murder becuase the Holy Spirit resides within you and will keep you from doing that.

Now, ACCORDING TO MY BELIEF, your actions as a Christian only affect your rewards in Heaven. Whatever you did for God will determine your rewards and whatever you did of your own accord will be burned as dross from a furnace.

ACCORDING TO MY BELIEF, there is no good person. Not one. By God's standards if you are not perfect you are not good. When God see's a Christian, He sees the blood of Jesus and, through Jesus blood, we are perfect. God does not see our sins because Jesus forgave them 200 years ago. No man, other than Jesus, when He was on earth, is without sin. It is impossible for man not to sin. The difference between Christians and everyone else is that Christians accepted God's gift of forgiveness and unbelievers did not. I use an imperfect but kinda understandable example of a guy that the king sentenced to death. While he guy was waiting his execution, a man came to the king and said, "Oh Lord, I will offer my life in return for the life of this man. Please execute me and let this man live. The king says that is acceptable. Soldiers go to the man awaiting execution and tell him the news. The man says "Bullshit". I dont believe that. Then he refuses to be released. The soldiers go back to the king and tell him the news and the king says, sadly, "So be it, the man shall die." That's the easiest way I can explain salvation.

Now, there you have my thread, let the flaming, trolling, insulting, etc. begin.
Holy crap (pun intended), what a bunch of unsupported rubbish. How do you know what "god" sees in us? Is the seal the "holy spirit" puts on me like a tattoo or a butt plug? Do you have any empirical proof that all those "reborn" have never committed murder? Why just murder? Can someone who is "reborn" commit rape since God is clearly ok with that?

What rewards do I get in Heaven. I was under the impression that it was all or nothing. Is there some sort of god credit system in heaven that allows me to buy a seat closer to god or perhaps get a nicer looking virgin? Can you tell me how many credits I get for gay bashing or defending creationism? Can I transfer my starwood points?
I'm sorry, but I've decided to only respond to civil responses. Since you are an ass I choose not to respond to your questions. Censored
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31-01-2013, 04:44 PM
RE: Salvation vs. actions
(31-01-2013 12:49 PM)Impulse Wrote:  When I see evidence that you really want to discuss a topic, I'll consider creating a meaningful reply. Until then, I have no interest in entertaining you. And I gotta say, utterances like "let the flaming, trolling, insulting, etc. begin" don't sound very promising.
I honestly dont care if you reply or not. You are unimportant to me.
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31-01-2013, 04:46 PM
RE: Salvation vs. actions
(31-01-2013 01:45 PM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  I agree with Impulse, but I figure I gotta rebut so we can find out if Richard wants to converse meaningfully.

As for me, I find that particular belief repugnant. I'm an atheist. I have no god watching over me, guiding my actions or threatening me with punishment if I act badly. My only reward is here in this world and my only punishment will be carried out in this world by my peers if my actions warrant it.

Despite that, I try to live my life such that everyone I meet, friends, coworkers, neighbors, clerks at stores, whoever, even if that meeting is brief and I'll never see that person again, my goal is to make sure I comport myself in such a way that they feel like their life, their day, or even just their moment, was better for having shared it with me. Often, that usually just means being polite and maybe saying something witty to put a smile on a stranger's face - mission accomplished. For people I have actual relationships with, it means much more than that.

Back to your beliefs and the repugnance thereof. You believe you can be an ass to anyone at any time and you have no consequences for it. In person, the behavior you exemplified here on this forum would get you punched in the nose. You know it would. You rely on your anonymity through the computer to protect you - the worst we can do is join you in name calling so you're safe.

The worst part is that you actually think you're superior to other people all the while you have this free license to be an ass and still be rewarded despite the repugnance of your behavior. That's sick, twisted, and revolting. Behavior like yours should be punished. You should be made to stop (i.e. punched in the nose), or at least highly encouraged to stop (i.e. not getting punched in the nose when you behave sociably).

You've chosen an imaginary friend in the sky who gives you an eternity of blissful reward for the most lame reason ever - gullibility. All you have to do is believe in a mythological character who never existed, all because an ancient book says so, without a shred of real evidence, and despite a ton of real contradictory evidence. In other words, you get eternal reward for being easily gullible. And along with that reward comes your free pass to treat your fellow man with abominable disregard.

I almost hope, almost, that there is a perfect, benevolent, creator god who put us all here for a reason and who judges us perfectly and rewards or punishes us accordingly. No, I don't mean your psychopathic idiot god, Yahweh, but an actual wise, loving creator god. For surely if there were such a god, your behavior (at least here; it's all I know about you) would not be rewarded. Not in the slightest. In fact, quite the opposite; your behavior would be punished.

But I said "almost" because I don't really hope that. At least not the punishment part. Nobody deserves eternal torture for temporary bad behavior. But, that's not what you believe - you believe people like me deserve to burn in hell just because I'm not as gullible as you. For committing no crime, for behaving with no malice, for doing nothing wrong but using the brain god gave me, I must burn and you're OK with that. I'm not. Not for me, not for you, not for anyone. Which is why I really don't wish for a god to punish you, at least not with a punishment such as hell.

But it would be cool if my suggested version of a loving god would take you and me to heaven and put you in timeout, say, for a few thousand years, to think about what an ass you've been and to reflect on why that's bad.

TL;dr: Bad Richard, very bad.
I'm wasting a post here but: Irrelevant.
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31-01-2013, 04:47 PM
RE: Salvation vs. actions
(31-01-2013 04:28 PM)Richard Stuckmeyer Wrote:  
(31-01-2013 12:52 AM)panterasr9 Wrote:  So lets say your building a house right? Would you rather have two hands working or a thousand hands praying? I bet my house with my one worker gets it done faster. Do you see what that means?
I'd rather have a thousand hands preying personally. We cant prove it either way cuz it's a hypothetical. That's why neither I nor most intelligent people dont answer hypotheticals.
A person who calls himself "intelligent", yet in the same post calls "praying" "preying". I see. "Hands prey" now ? What do "hands" prey upon ? Little children ? Are you a pedophile Dicky ?
Weeping

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist
Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things" (KJV)

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31-01-2013, 04:51 PM
RE: Salvation vs. actions
(31-01-2013 03:12 PM)hedgehog648 Wrote:  Ah Jesus the sinless wonder.

Except he committed a few sins in the Bible.

Shame really.

Interesting how "murder" becomes "manslaughter" in your mind if committed by a Born Again. It's only manslaughter if the death was an accident - are you saying the Holy Spirit takes control of the Born Agains body and murders people with it in every one of these cases?

Anyway, a god who allows people into paradise no matter what they do as long as they accept their free all access pass by sacrificing their critical thinking abilities is not a god I am interested in knowing.
I'm trying to remain civil even tho you arent, so I'll respond to your mockery.
You are stating your opinion of Jesus as fact so I will do the same. Jesus never committed even one sin. Please name one.\\Obviously, as you have no legal training you dont know the difference between murder and manslaughter. Maybe you should look it up before you talk out of your ass.
Good. because God has no interest in a fool like you.
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