Salvation vs. actions
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31-01-2013, 09:48 PM
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RE: Salvation vs. actions
(31-01-2013 09:37 PM)pxlgirl Wrote:I'm an atheist.(31-01-2013 08:58 PM)fstratzero Wrote: But then again you have the fast food version of theology. Where all you have to do is believe that jesus died for you. Later on in life I realized how sick it would be for a father to kill his son, for the crimes of his fellows. Rather than give a proportional punishment for those who committed said crimes. Member of the Cult of Reason
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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason. -Baron d'Holbach- |
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31-01-2013, 09:57 PM
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RE: Salvation vs. actions
Yeah, but I was just checkin' if I got this right...
![]() ![]() "Some part of our being knows this is where we came from. We long to return, and we can, because the cosmos is also within us. We're made of star stuff. We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." (Carl Sagan) |
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31-01-2013, 10:20 PM
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RE: Salvation vs. actions
(31-01-2013 09:57 PM)pxlgirl Wrote: Yeah, but I was just checkin' if I got this right...Indeed, even the concept of god is an idea that is an ocean of contradictions. A concept at war with it's self. Member of the Cult of Reason
Bitcion:1DNeQMswMdvx4xLPP6qNE7RkeTwXGC7Bzp
The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason. -Baron d'Holbach- |
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31-01-2013, 11:23 PM
(This post was last modified: 01-02-2013 02:26 AM by EvolutionKills.)
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RE: Salvation vs. actions
I never liked the idea of vicarious redemption, it just seems immoral. I could pay your debt, take your place in prison, or even your spot on the gallows. However I CANNOT absolve you of your responsibility; it would be immoral of you ask, and immoral of me to accept.
Christianity is a cult of human sacrifice, it operate under the assumption that a single human sacrifice was actually effective. But even this falls amazingly short of being impressive. Jesus just did what had been preordained for him, so what choice did he have? It was all part of God's plan, so it's not as if he choose to go through with it (which means his 'sacrifice' was inevitable, and thus meaningless). And even if he had actively chosen, so what? He died and spent a whooping 3 days in hell before going back up to heaven. Some fucking sacrifice. If traditional Christology held that Jesus was still in hell and taking our places there so that we need not suffer, that would at least be somewhat more compelling. But then again that would negate the threat of hell, leaving the faithful with just a carrot and no stick. But it doesn't matter because supposedly he's already in heaven chilling next to... himself. That's right folks, because the only way God can fix the Universe is with a blood sacrifice, and the regular ones weren't cutting it anymore, so he had to kill himself to get the job done. Makes perfect sense... ![]() |
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31-01-2013, 11:45 PM
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RE: Salvation vs. actions
(31-01-2013 12:48 AM)Richard Stuckmeyer Wrote: ACCORDING TO MY BELIEF, salvation is based on ONE thing, faith in Jesus Christ as your Saviour. Do you really believe this? I thought I did when I was a Christian, but looking back I see that I didn't. Do you see the Mormons as Christians? Jehovah's Witnesses? Both Catholics and Protestants? They all believe in Jesus Christ, but their specific rituals are what make them different -- and I believe you also see most of those as non-believers, despite sharing faith in Jesus Christ as savior. (31-01-2013 12:48 AM)Richard Stuckmeyer Wrote: Now, there you have my thread, let the flaming, trolling, insulting, etc. begin. Save the stereotypes and ad hominem. Christians are just as good at flaming, trolling, and insulting as atheists are. Your religion doesn't dictate your level of altruism or ethics, despite whatever you've been told in church. My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan. |
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01-02-2013, 01:33 AM
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RE: Salvation vs. actions
(31-01-2013 09:48 PM)fstratzero Wrote: Later on in life I realized how sick it would be for a father to kill his son, for the crimes of his fellows. Rather than give a proportional punishment for those who committed said crimes.No, it makes perfect sense. The other day someone broke into my car and stole my CDs and iPod charger. I didn't want to stay mad at this burglar and there was no way I could just forgive him, so I nailed my daughter to a cross. All is forgiven. It worked for Yahweh, and it worked for me. "Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein |
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01-02-2013, 07:17 AM
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RE: Salvation vs. actions
(01-02-2013 01:33 AM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:And the next time an angry mob is outside my house, just send the daughter out to be raped by them. Its all good from there.(31-01-2013 09:48 PM)fstratzero Wrote: Later on in life I realized how sick it would be for a father to kill his son, for the crimes of his fellows. Rather than give a proportional punishment for those who committed said crimes.No, it makes perfect sense. |
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01-02-2013, 07:41 AM
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RE: Salvation vs. actions
It really makes me wonder [considering the excellent posts in this thread] how christians can't understand the folly of "a sacrifice" themselves. And the whole thing about "perfection", . . . . and the worn out statement "We are lucky for god's grace, because we all DESERVE to burn in hell for eternity for our sin". God wasn't "perfect", why should we be held to what this god wasn't able to do?
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01-02-2013, 08:05 AM
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RE: Salvation vs. actions
(31-01-2013 08:19 PM)Richard Stuckmeyer Wrote:(31-01-2013 07:41 PM)hedgehog648 Wrote: [/font]I have encountered many people over the years who have quoted this passage in The point of me bringing up the Law was so that it was plainly understood that Jesus was subject to it just like any other Jew. Essentially your entire post was confirming this further. But in your post you said this: "Jesus fulfilled both demands of the Law. The first demand He fulfilled by living a life in total absolute obedience to the Law. He was God manifested in the flesh, who came to live as a man, and He lived perfectly because there was no sin within Him. In this context Jesus fulfilled the law, by living in obedience to its demands." and then this: " Jesus said that He came to fulfill the Law, and He did so by living a life in total obedience to the Law, and by dying for us who did not live in total obedience to the Law." However I gave you two examples of how Jesus did not obey the Law. Two times when he broke it by becoming "unclean" and hence a sinner. As a result, his sacrifice meant nothing. He was not sinless, and could not be the "lamb of God" as he was called. The whole point of his sacrifice, as you alluded to in your post, was that he was the sinless sacrifice for all of humanity. But since he was a sinner, his death could not result in salvation for anyone. He was just another sinning Jew dying in the Middle East. |
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05-02-2013, 01:51 PM
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RE: Salvation vs. actions
Only followers of Jesus are saved? Everyone else burns in hell, right? Does this include children who are too young to understand the concept of religion, aborted babies, members of other faiths who have never been exposed to Christianity, and of course the most of us, who you joined simply in order to tell is we are going to hell for using the mind that you believe god gave us?
If there's a god and he's really not as malevolent as he comes off to be, then he would realize that he gave us not only the power to think outside of the bible box, but also set proof against his own existence. Humans aren't the center of the universe just because they're conscious beings. Consciousness is merely a chemical reaction in our brains. However, I am glad that you didn't use "we believe" like most Christians. You used "I believe". Thank you for that. Better to be hungry and free than fed and in chains. |
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