Sam Harris--The End of Liberalism?
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22-04-2013, 11:48 AM
RE: Sam Harris--The End of Liberalism?
(22-04-2013 11:26 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(22-04-2013 08:31 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  And what do all 3 of these things have in common? They are false platitudes the group members tell themselves about the other group.

They are humorous aphorisms. Dodgy

Lighten the fuck up. Rolleyes

Big Grin Sorry but I have had the Liberals are just conservatives that haven't been mugged yet thrown in my face more than once so I'm a little touchy about it.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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22-04-2013, 11:55 AM
RE: Sam Harris--The End of Liberalism?
(22-04-2013 11:48 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(22-04-2013 11:26 AM)Chas Wrote:  They are humorous aphorisms. Dodgy

Lighten the fuck up. Rolleyes

Big Grin Sorry but I have had the Liberals are just conservatives that haven't been mugged yet thrown in my face more than once so I'm a little touchy about it.

There's a reverse one that I can't recall.Consider

I enjoy aphorisms.
By their nature they are oversimplifications.
They contain a nugget of truth, and the memorable ones are cleverly or poetically worded.
I enjoy the word play.Smile

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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22-04-2013, 11:57 AM
RE: Sam Harris--The End of Liberalism?
(21-04-2013 08:47 PM)BryanS Wrote:  And, TrulyX, it is not true that the Islamic world has always been so backward. If anything, their religion was responsible for their civilizations exit of their golden age. Let Neil deGrasse Tyson explain it to you:


The Effect of Islam on Science in the Middle East - 9th-12th Century



I don't know if it came off as if that is what I was claiming (intentionally or not), i.e., that they were always backward in that region, especially in that way specifically. I was actually making some of my post, with that specific video, really that time period, in mind.

He makes an important point, at the end of the video, relating to my point: United States of America, early 21 Century, i.e., his point for even discussing that topic.

There is debate over that time period, something I see myself as being too ignorant, at the moment, to discuss thoroughly; however, the disagreements over what actually happened to collapse that region, during that time period, seem to all point at a central cause: religion.

I've heard the same points made about the West not always being as backward as things were pre-Enlightenment. The same thing points to the cause of that backwardness: religion.

Religion encourages irrationality, and if that is happening at all, it's bad.

The Paradox Of Fools And Wise Men:
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” ― Bertrand Russell
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22-04-2013, 12:08 PM
RE: Sam Harris--The End of Liberalism?
(21-04-2013 11:00 PM)BryanS Wrote:  This moral equivalence through non-judgment of religion is precisely what Harris is accusing the left of doing.

I'd hope he wasn't making the error of not properly distinguishing and being specific. I hope he didn't mean, specifically, all people on the left, and not just a select group of liberals.

Even ignoring that, without even considering whether she was on the left, or not, that women seems like an ideological fool.

The Paradox Of Fools And Wise Men:
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” ― Bertrand Russell
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22-04-2013, 03:38 PM
RE: Sam Harris--The End of Liberalism?
(22-04-2013 11:55 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(22-04-2013 11:48 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Big Grin Sorry but I have had the Liberals are just conservatives that haven't been mugged yet thrown in my face more than once so I'm a little touchy about it.

There's a reverse one that I can't recall.Consider

I enjoy aphorisms.
By their nature they are oversimplifications.
They contain a nugget of truth, and the memorable ones are cleverly or poetically worded.
I enjoy the word play.Smile

A conservative is just a liberal who hasn't exercised critical thinking skills.

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22-04-2013, 03:59 PM
RE: Sam Harris--The End of Liberalism?
(22-04-2013 03:38 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(22-04-2013 11:55 AM)Chas Wrote:  There's a reverse one that I can't recall.Consider

I enjoy aphorisms.
By their nature they are oversimplifications.
They contain a nugget of truth, and the memorable ones are cleverly or poetically worded.
I enjoy the word play.Smile

A conservative is just a liberal who hasn't exercised critical thinking skills.

A conservative is a liberal who has been taxed to death.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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22-04-2013, 04:16 PM
RE: Sam Harris--The End of Liberalism?
A libertarian is a hick who hasn't evolved out of an agrarian society.

Oh, wait, that wasn't an aphorism. Or was it?

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22-04-2013, 05:33 PM
RE: Sam Harris--The End of Liberalism?
(22-04-2013 04:16 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  A libertarian is a hick who hasn't evolved out of an agrarian society.

Oh, wait, that wasn't an aphorism. Or was it?

If when you are young you are not a liberal, you do not have a heart.
If when you are old you are not a conservative, you do not have a brain.
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22-04-2013, 05:40 PM
RE: Sam Harris--The End of Liberalism?
(22-04-2013 05:33 PM)BryanS Wrote:  
(22-04-2013 04:16 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  A libertarian is a hick who hasn't evolved out of an agrarian society.

Oh, wait, that wasn't an aphorism. Or was it?

If when you are young you are not a liberal, you do not have a heart.
If when you are old you are not a conservative, you do not have a brain.

The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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22-04-2013, 05:57 PM
RE: Sam Harris--The End of Liberalism?
(22-04-2013 11:34 AM)TrulyX Wrote:  With that, it seems as if you have missed the point of my entire post.

The only different is a societal difference, leading to a difference in what religion can actually get away with, in certain areas of the world today. It still remains, as a fact, that religion in the US (specifically Christianity) is equally as poisonous and destructive to society, as it is any where else in the world. In that way, the same. It's not different just because the West had 500+ years of modern enlightenment to get us to this point.

Not taking into account the societal differences-- looking at government, society, history, etc.-- is where perspective is lost; or irrationally placing certain immorality, mainly direct and violent acts, over others, as well not analyzing the situations clearly. That could involve ignoring all of the problems related to the US, or failing to view the situation fairly, relatively and objectively.

You can't say blowing up a crowd of people (and so on) in a country without the strength of a US Constitution (plus military, police, justice system, etc.) and all of those years of liberalism and revolution, is worse than, with those positive things established in society, using Christianity as a means in which to get elected to a elite position in society and curving public policy in a way that hurts millions and millions, if not more, and all over the world, in some cases.

I can say it is not the same thing because for real, it is not. Yes, religion is a threat in the more (classical) liberal western countries. The religious right gets their way often enough, and when they do it is a setback. But the religious right didn't kill people when Piss Christ was on display--ohh, it ticked them off something awful, and they protested and spoke out against the National Endowment for the Arts for funding it. As you point out, they try to get elected. But they didn't kill people or organize violent riots over their perceived insult. Just saying the wrong thing about Islam can put your life at risk.
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