Sam Harris is a Buddhist
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09-06-2015, 11:30 AM
RE: Sam Harris is a Buddhist
(09-06-2015 11:25 AM)enochian Wrote:  ClydeLee,

My last topic had nothing to do with Sam Harris or Dzogchen.

It was about connotations upon some perceived notion that "New Atheism" is a position that one is holding and being unique to religious ideas from a Buddhism having relevance.

Yet yes, it wasn't about the exact specifics of two particulars. That is highly similar.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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09-06-2015, 11:33 AM
RE: Sam Harris is a Buddhist
(09-06-2015 11:21 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(09-06-2015 11:02 AM)enochian Wrote:  There is a huge misunderstanding.

Buddhism is not about the teachings of one Buddha.

There are many Buddhas such as Tilopa, Naropa, Maitripa, Virupa etc.

These are all historical Indian figures.

There are many forms of Buddhism. I think you have as much a misunderstanding as you want others to believe. That literally alters nothing from what other peoples responses or thoughts are. There are forms of Buddhism that aren't considered a religion and types that wouldn't be considered one by people's use of the term.

The ideas of "new" atheism which are a created outside annointed label. As in something I've not ever seen anyone, let alone a person like Harris/Dawkins, define themselves as. It's just a category for labeling social movements as they alter over time.

You created a thread 3 years ago on this forum on basically the same topic. Yet you rarely are here but decided to come back to mention this. You don't really expound anything but very short quips and don't actually expound on or defend why you even have your positions. I don't see much of a thought or purpose for caring about this in any manner. I wouldn't care if someone did but I've never seen someone give a damn to label themselves a "new atheist"

Sam Harris does often believe in various things people don't believe in. Some people also disagree with him upon free will. Does that of any relevance to being an atheist? I don't see how. You ask it as a question but you've got a thought on it enough to care about the idea over years of time. So why would it matter?

"There are many forms of Buddhism"

I hate this argument, so what? There are many sects of Christianity, and Jew, and Islam. Sunnis and Shiites are both Muslims. Catholics and Baptists are still Christians. And even with say for example, Black Southern Baptists view the bible way differently than conservative white southern Baptists.

China, and Tibet are both full of Buddhists but view that religion differently. Japan is also full of Buddhists but are not friends with China.

Getting stuck on all the different sects and varieties, misses the long term bigger picture with our species. No one wants to consider that religion itself, is man made and was never a requirement for our species outside giving us false comfort like a sugar pill.

Yes Buddhists are complex and have a variety of sects, so? I live fine without being a Buddhist, just like Buddhist live fine without worshiping Jesus or Allah.

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09-06-2015, 11:41 AM
RE: Sam Harris is a Buddhist
At one point Robert Price may have dabbled in Buddhism as well. At least that was the idea I got from some of his podcasts. Either way, it doesn't matter to me. Hell there are christian atheists for christ's sake. (no pun intended). You can be a nonbeliever in gods and still use the power of yourself. You can gleam from the sayings of a lot of religions that may help you strive for a more constructive life if you want. Or if you don't want to, then don't. Almost everyone in every religion cherry picks what they want from their religion anyway.

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09-06-2015, 11:44 AM
RE: Sam Harris is a Buddhist
(09-06-2015 11:33 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  
(09-06-2015 11:21 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  There are many forms of Buddhism. I think you have as much a misunderstanding as you want others to believe. That literally alters nothing from what other peoples responses or thoughts are. There are forms of Buddhism that aren't considered a religion and types that wouldn't be considered one by people's use of the term.

The ideas of "new" atheism which are a created outside annointed label. As in something I've not ever seen anyone, let alone a person like Harris/Dawkins, define themselves as. It's just a category for labeling social movements as they alter over time.

You created a thread 3 years ago on this forum on basically the same topic. Yet you rarely are here but decided to come back to mention this. You don't really expound anything but very short quips and don't actually expound on or defend why you even have your positions. I don't see much of a thought or purpose for caring about this in any manner. I wouldn't care if someone did but I've never seen someone give a damn to label themselves a "new atheist"

Sam Harris does often believe in various things people don't believe in. Some people also disagree with him upon free will. Does that of any relevance to being an atheist? I don't see how. You ask it as a question but you've got a thought on it enough to care about the idea over years of time. So why would it matter?

"There are many forms of Buddhism"

I hate this argument, so what? There are many sects of Christianity, and Jew, and Islam. Sunnis and Shiites are both Muslims. Catholics and Baptists are still Christians. And even with say for example, Black Southern Baptists view the bible way differently than conservative white southern Baptists.

China, and Tibet are both full of Buddhists but view that religion differently. Japan is also full of Buddhists but are not friends with China.

Getting stuck on all the different sects and varieties, misses the long term bigger picture with our species. No one wants to consider that religion itself, is man made and was never a requirement for our species outside giving us false comfort like a sugar pill.

Yes Buddhists are complex and have a variety of sects, so? I live fine without being a Buddhist, just like Buddhist live fine without worshiping Jesus or Allah.

There are very few Christian/Muslim/Jewish sects that don't believe in a god. That's the only point I'm making here specifically about that. There is little directly contradictory to many Buddhist ideas and atheism. They're contradictory to skeptical science at times. That's a different argument. It's not saying Buddhism is something revering because there is different forms.

You say meditation is "no different than say training a Navy Seal to clear their minds and endure." Exactly! That's the point. That isn't something that is easy or capable for anyone either. There is human benefit in ANYWAY you do it to get to a more focused or clear minded mental state at times. It doesn't have to be nonsense or based on a religious cornerstone. It could come from writing, working out, stretching, mediating, focusing, or masturbating. It just so happens to be a concept already given great many centuries of though too. In more centuries it can be expanded. There is sugar pill elements to it but also there is, oh yeah I'm actually taking a moment of my time to think about myself and my life practical elements to it.

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09-06-2015, 11:51 AM
RE: Sam Harris is a Buddhist
(09-06-2015 11:44 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(09-06-2015 11:33 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  "There are many forms of Buddhism"

I hate this argument, so what? There are many sects of Christianity, and Jew, and Islam. Sunnis and Shiites are both Muslims. Catholics and Baptists are still Christians. And even with say for example, Black Southern Baptists view the bible way differently than conservative white southern Baptists.

China, and Tibet are both full of Buddhists but view that religion differently. Japan is also full of Buddhists but are not friends with China.

Getting stuck on all the different sects and varieties, misses the long term bigger picture with our species. No one wants to consider that religion itself, is man made and was never a requirement for our species outside giving us false comfort like a sugar pill.

Yes Buddhists are complex and have a variety of sects, so? I live fine without being a Buddhist, just like Buddhist live fine without worshiping Jesus or Allah.

There are very few Christian/Muslim/Jewish sects that don't believe in a god. That's the only point I'm making here specifically about that. There is little directly contradictory to many Buddhist ideas and atheism. They're contradictory to skeptical science at times. That's a different argument. It's not saying Buddhism is something revering because there is different forms.

You say meditation is "no different than say training a Navy Seal to clear their minds and endure." Exactly! That's the point. That isn't something that is easy or capable for anyone either. There is human benefit in ANYWAY you do it to get to a more focused or clear minded mental state at times. It doesn't have to be nonsense or based on a religious cornerstone. It could come from writing, working out, stretching, mediating, focusing, or masturbating. It just so happens to be a concept already given great many centuries of though too. In more centuries it can be expanded. There is sugar pill elements to it but also there is, oh yeah I'm actually taking a moment of my time to think about myself and my life practical elements to it.

"So happens" is a bad argument that allows religion to employ the gatekeeper fallacy. Once you see a chimp use a stick as a tool to get ants out of an anthill for food, you know scientifically where our species ability for discovery comes from. It does not come from religion. Our ability as a species to make discoveries is due to our evolution. It is not a patent owned by any religious label.

Buddhism was still started in a scientifically ignorant age and makes plenty of stupid claims and has superfluous rituals and absurdities as well.

Victor Stenger in his book "The New Atheism" briefly in a later chapter addresses multiple religions including those of Asia and the Orient. And if my memory serves me correctly, he mentions Sam in regards to Buddhism.

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09-06-2015, 12:57 PM
RE: Sam Harris is a Buddhist
Brian37,

You have to keep in mind that Dzogchen is not a man-made system.

Which is why even today Dzogchen leads to rainbow body, a body of light.
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10-06-2015, 05:20 PM (This post was last modified: 10-06-2015 08:10 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Sam Harris is a Buddhist
(09-06-2015 12:57 PM)enochian Wrote:  Brian37,

You have to keep in mind that Dzogchen is not a man-made system.

Which is why even today Dzogchen leads to rainbow body, a body of light.

I was tracking all the way up until you posted this nonsense. Bit like saying "You have to keep in mind that God is not a man-made system. Which is why even today God leads to a rainbow body, an eternal body of light in heaven." Utter and complete bullshit jibber-jabber. There is no concept, not a single one, which is not artificial and exists outside the mind of man. Hell the concept of a "concept" is fucking definitionally artificial.

#sigh
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10-06-2015, 06:26 PM
RE: Sam Harris is a Buddhist
(08-06-2015 09:14 PM)enochian Wrote:  So one can be an atheist and follow Dzogchen?

I occasionally eat crackers and drink wine. Does that make me Catholic?

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10-06-2015, 06:28 PM
RE: Sam Harris is a Buddhist
(10-06-2015 06:26 PM)Can_of_Beans Wrote:  
(08-06-2015 09:14 PM)enochian Wrote:  So one can be an atheist and follow Dzogchen?

I occasionally eat crackers and drink wine. Does that make me Catholic?

only if you fantasize about cannibalism while you do it.

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10-06-2015, 06:31 PM
RE: Sam Harris is a Buddhist
(10-06-2015 06:28 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(10-06-2015 06:26 PM)Can_of_Beans Wrote:  I occasionally eat crackers and drink wine. Does that make me Catholic?

only if you fantasize about cannibalism while you do it.

Oh...in that case...

Lecture_preist

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