Sam Parnia: Erasing Death book and AWARE study
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04-03-2013, 01:09 AM
RE: Sam Parnia: Erasing Death book and AWARE study
Quote:For good reason, I applaud Dr Parnia's work. He’s having to
approach a very controversial and taboo subject under a cloud of scepticism.
But then, how could it be different for someone on the brink of making a
discovery that has the potential to change the world’s perception of life and
ourselves. His AWARE project is very close to proving the separation of mind
and body as death approaches.How this is done is of great interest to me as I came up
with a very similar system when writing my own book. I contacted Dr Parnia
immediately to assured him that I hadn’t copied his work. In reply, he gave me
permission to use any material I wished from the Horizon Research Foundation website.
He said I had written a fascinating book. It seems my fiction-based book is
becoming fact. I also foresaw the emergence of the something very similar to
the very popular Death Cafes.
Another factual event happened the other week when a surgeon
removed the wrong kidney and killed a patient. By coincidence, I foresaw this
also.

There is still nothing becoming a fact even in the case of Sam Parnia. He so far has not posted his work on peer-review only written a book for the dualist camp to earn money like all "respected" woo masters like Raymond Moody to earn money from the dualist flock and Parnia knows that to sell it he must make a big fuzz about it similar like it was made by Eben Alexander who also sold his near-death experience to Newsweek.
Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eben_Alexander_(author)
Its even similar to Eben Alexander who before releasing his book was on all shows associated with paranormal talk and if you look at Parnias statements they are the same way bizarre like those of Alexander. Take a look at this for example from the Coast to Coast radio show:
“Many of these people tell of incredible, profound experiences even though the brain was not functioning, which tells us that the mind/psyche/soul may be a separate entity, independent of the brain, but uses the brain as a modulator” as a way to show or express itself to the outside world. He mentioned one case, as told/verified by the attending doctor, where a man (having an OBE during the NDE/ADE) actually READ THE DOCTOR’S THOUGHTS, not just heard and saw what was going on. “These cases all add weight that there is something astonishing going on.
Wow if reading a mind as a soul being is not woo then I don't know what woo is. Parnia with this is suggesting that we all have inside ourselves ghosts that can read mind like a good ghost story for children. If this is science then its pseudoscience and if he is a researcher he is a pseudoresearcher.
There can be a million rational explanation about this because in the book he claims this:
Only about 5% of the 100 people Parnia interviewed had an NDE, out of the 5%, about 2 OBE's out of the 5% though.
Taken from: http://forum.mind-energy.net/skeptiko-po...ew-16.html
If someone who is skeptical would look on all the claimed NDE with a skeptical eye then they would not be so fantastic. I belief like in all NDEs that they would end up with a normal rational explanation.
I just even came to a article where people in anesthesia can learn:Abstract
BACKGROUND:

Learning during anaesthesia has been demonstrated, but little is known about the circumstances under which it may occur. This study investigated the hypothesis that learning during anaesthesia occurs during, but not before, surgical stimulation.
METHODS:

Words were played through headphones to 64 day-surgery patients during propofol anaesthesia. Fourteen words were played repeatedly (15 times) for 1 min each either before (n=32) or during (n=32) surgical stimulation. The depth of anaesthesia was estimated using the bispectral index (BIS). Heart rate, ventilatory frequency, mean arterial pressure, end-tidal carbon dioxide concentration, and infusion rate of propofol were recorded at 1 min intervals during word presentation. On recovery, memory was assessed using an auditory word stem completion test and word recognition test.
RESULTS:

The mean BIS, arterial pressure, end-tidal carbon dioxide and heart rate during word presentation did not differ between the groups. The infusion rate of propofol and the ventilatory frequency were significantly greater in the during-surgical stimulation group. There was no evidence for explicit recall or recognition, nor of awareness during anaesthesia (median mean-BIS=38 in the before-surgical stimulation group and 42 in the during-surgical stimulation group). Only patients who were played words during surgical stimulation showed significant implicit memory on recovery (mean score=0.08, P<0.02) However, their scores were not significantly higher than those of the before-surgical stimulation group (mean score=0.01).
CONCLUSIONS:

Learning during anaesthesia seems more likely to occur during rather than before surgical stimulation at comparable anaesthetic depth. We hypothesize that surgical stimulation facilitates learning during anaesthesia, independently of its effects on anaesthetic depth.

Taken from: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14722165
So this is one of the explanations for many NDEs I think..
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04-03-2013, 05:45 PM
RE: Sam Parnia: Erasing Death book and AWARE study
Hi there. As I understand it, the Aware Study has two aims. The first is to understand what happens to us when we die -what happens to our brain when we die - because there is still a lot we do not understand about the process of death. Sam Parnia's work has made huge strides in our understanding. He has shown categorically that death is not a moment but a process - and this has huge implications for the science of resuscitation both practically (in that now we know consciousness exists and survives for much longer after 'death' than we had previously thought, meaning that if we get the science right, we can bring people back as themselves) and of course ethically. There are ethical questions to ask about the merits of bringing people back because sometimes it may not be wise to do so and who makes those decisons? The second aim is to study NDE or as Dr Parnia has renamed them, Actual Death Experiences. He is asking whether there is evidence to show that Consciousness (our awareness or sense of self) continues to function outside of the brain. In order to explore this question using the scientific method, the study needs to record the timing of the experience (did the experience occur when the brain was flatlined and heart had stopped or after successful resuscitation) and to record veridical information. This is best gathered from people who had out of body experiences. There is a wealth of qualitative information already where hospital staff have verified that what patients have witnessed in the operating theatre and sometimes outside of the theatre, are correct and precise, but of course this doesnt count as scientic evidence as it can be seen as anecdotal. Parnia's work has attempted to change this by placing pictures on ceilings etc. Reading the IANDs news updates on Aware the conclusion so far seems to be that furthur studies are required - but that some data has indeed suggested that veridical experiences have been present during the Aware Study. We shall have to wait until the end of the year to discover precisely what was recorded. The radio interviews appear to suggest that those patients who did report OBE talked of looking at their bodies from the foot of the bed rather than the top of the ceiling and so research going forward will place images in different places. It is so easy to entrench oneself in rigid positions over this stuff. What does seem certain is that our current understanding of the brain is woefully thin. I think there is enough evidence (well I am convinced) to say that awareness, the self, consciousness remains after what we understand as clinical death but this could 'just' mean that 'death' takes longer than we ever previously thought possible. Perhaps once we hit that white light, we 'disolve'? Or it could mean that our awareness does not sit in the brain but elsewhere.....that it is part of a conscious universe...and continues? Whatever the answer is, we know that as human beings we will continue searching and asking questions because that is what we do.
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05-03-2013, 12:17 AM (This post was last modified: 05-03-2013 12:25 AM by Lukas1986.)
RE: Sam Parnia: Erasing Death book and AWARE study
Quote:Hi there. As I understand it, the Aware Study has two aims. The first is to understand what happens to us when we die -what happens to our brain when we die - because there is still a lot we do not understand about the process of death. Sam Parnia's work has made huge strides in our understanding. He has shown categorically that death is not a moment but a process - and this has huge implications for the science of resuscitation both practically (in that now we know consciousness exists and survives for much longer after 'death' than we had previously thought, meaning that if we get the science right, we can bring people back as themselves) and of course ethically. There are ethical questions to ask about the merits of bringing people back because sometimes it may not be wise to do so and who makes those decisons? The second aim is to study NDE or as Dr Parnia has renamed them, Actual Death Experiences. He is asking whether there is evidence to show that Consciousness (our awareness or sense of self) continues to function outside of the brain. In order to explore this question using the scientific method, the study needs to record the timing of the experience (did the experience occur when the brain was flatlined and heart had stopped or after successful resuscitation) and to record veridical information. This is best gathered from people who had out of body experiences. There is a wealth of qualitative information already where hospital staff have verified that what patients have witnessed in the operating theatre and sometimes outside of the theatre, are correct and precise, but of course this doesnt count as scientic evidence as it can be seen as anecdotal. Parnia's work has attempted to change this by placing pictures on ceilings etc. Reading the IANDs news updates on Aware the conclusion so far seems to be that furthur studies are required - but that some data has indeed suggested that veridical experiences have been present during the Aware Study. We shall have to wait until the end of the year to discover precisely what was recorded. The radio interviews appear to suggest that those patients who did report OBE talked of looking at their bodies from the foot of the bed rather than the top of the ceiling and so research going forward will place images in different places. It is so easy to entrench oneself in rigid positions over this stuff. What does seem certain is that our current understanding of the brain is woefully thin. I think there is enough evidence (well I am convinced) to say that awareness, the self, consciousness remains after what we understand as clinical death but this could 'just' mean that 'death' takes longer than we ever previously thought possible. Perhaps once we hit that white light, we 'disolve'? Or it could mean that our awareness does not sit in the brain but elsewhere.....that it is part of a conscious universe...and continues? Whatever the answer is, we know that as human beings we will continue searching and asking questions because that is what we do.

Does he got evidence for this that death is a longer process?? Or just claims? Because like several people pointed out these people who he claimed were "dead" were not actually dead in the first place. A woman who should have been dead for 8 hours would not be resuscitated in the first place if there is no hope of recovery and besides this woman body temperature was above 20 C and there are people who had less then this and were returned back to life:
17 degrees Celsius body temperature--resuscitation successful?
Hungerer S, Ebenhoch M, Bühren V.
Source

Trauma Center Murnau, Prof. Küntscherstrasse 8, Murnau, Germany. shungerer@bgu–murnau.de
Abstract

The resuscitation of patients with accidental profound hypothermia is challenging. A 17-year-old man got lost on the first of January, after a New Year's Eve party in the foothills of the Alps. After a search of four hours, he was found unconscious with fixed pupils, a Glasgow Coma Scale of three points, and a body temperature below 20° Celsius. There were no signs for traumatic injuries. Initial electrocardiogram (ECG) showed no heart activity. Basic life support was begun by the mountain rescue service and continued by the medical helicopter team. The patient was transferred under continuous cardiac massage, airway management with intubation and intravenous line via external jugular vein by helicopter to the nearest hospital for analysis of serum potassium. Body temperature was 17°C measured by urinary bladder electronic thermometer. The serum potassium was 7.55 mmol/L, therefore the patient was transferred by helicopter to the next cardiovascular center for rewarming with extracorporal circulation (ECC). Under the rewarming process with ECC, the heart activity restarted at 25°C with external defibrillation. The patient was rewarmed to 37.2°C after four hours of ECC. Cerebral CT scans after 24 h and 48 h revealed no significant hypoxia and after extubation the early rehabilitation process started. After six weeks, the patient regained the ability to walk and started to communicate on a basic level. After 54 days the patient presented signs of septic shock. After initial stabilization and CT diagnostic, a laparotomy was performed. The intraoperative finding was a total necrosis of the small bowel and colon. The patient died on the same day. Post mortem examination showed a necrotizing enterocolitis with transmural necrosis of the bowel. Survivors of uncontrolled profound hypothermia below 20°C core temperature are rare. The epicrisis is often prolonged by complications of different causes. The present case reports a necrotizing enterocolitis with a non-occlusive mesenteric ischemia (NOMI) as a medium-term complication of profound hypothermia.

From this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21190505

According to this article Parnia has found nothing new only things we knew already and he forgets one thing that people who have less then 20 C in their body will have problems to survive after being resuscitated. Also Parnia is wrong that these experiences are after death no they are not. They are not even before death because like one skeptic pointed out brain cells do not die. Death occurs when brain cells die - quote from Lance Kennedy from the Skeptic forum. Besides cooling is used to save lives in the first place but its also limited just take a look here:

How does therapeutic hypothermia help?

Hypothermia counteracts neuroexcitation in brain cells by stabilizing calcium and glutamate release, reducing the degree of cell death. It also stabilizes the blood-brain barrier and suppresses the inflammatory process, reducing cerebral edema. Cerebral metabolism decreases 6% to 10% for every degree Celsius that body temperature drops. As cerebral metabolism declines, the brain needs less oxygen.

In essence, hypothermia counteracts many of the destructive mechanisms of cardiac arrest. Its effects resemble those of cardiac defibrillation, which makes the heart stop and then reset itself to a normal rhythm. Similarly, hypothermia halts destructive brain mechanisms and lets the brain reset itself to normal functioning.

Although the medical community has known of hypothermia’s potential benefits for years, this therapy gained support only after the New England Journal of Medicine published two landmark studies in 2002. The Hypothermia After Cardiac Arrest (HACA) study and the Bernard study showed significantly improved neurologic outcomes for the hypothermia group compared to the normothermia group. The HACA study also showed reduced mortality. Both studies included only patients with ventricular tachycardia and ventricular fibrillation.
Taken from: http://www.americannursetoday.com/articl...4&fid=7986
This is even old news because this article was release in the year 2011 which points out that Sam Parnia is only making a fuzz about his book to sell it to believers and to earn extra bucks because believers are so trusting people and they need only to hear good arguments and not actual proof. Parnia if he has some evidence then he should show them. So far he has shown nothing of interests only made new NDE stories similar to the ones people hear all the time.
When Parnia has some real evidence he should get it peer-reviewed and send it to a normal medical journal and not some Near Death journal where the likes of Greyson and other believers send it. So far he has brought no evidence and to correct you Digitalelaine we know a lot of the brain and there is no place for dualism in it in the first place:
please first read this:
http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index...rom-egnor/
http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index...o-kastrup/
http://neuroskeptic.blogspot.sk/2008/12/...ul-is.html
Then you can jump to conclusions what Parnia has made. Besides he is a believer in the afterlife because his father lost consciousness and it affected him - read it somewhere in a review of his book. Therefore he has a agenda and he wants it to be true and he became also a lackey of the Templeton Foundation because he asked money from them for his NDE research:
Taken from: http://forum.mind-energy.net/skeptiko-po...ew-16.html
The Templeton Foundation is pro-believers foundation which want religion to be true.
Taken from: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Templeton_Foundation
Also like several people pointed out why Sam Parnia will not publish the data in peer review but rather goes to Coast to Coast AM which is known as also a heaven for pseudoscience people:
Taken from: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Coast_to_Coast_AM
Another thing is the study should provide the fact that people saw the signs and no one did in the first place so far to my knowledge.
This whole thing stinks like with Eben Alexander who also had giant claims and arguments and only did this to sell books to believers and earn big bucks from it.
If this world is like the believers think that it is. It would be a very different world and I would have some form of ghost inside me that can read minds of people like Parnia is saying. Wow this would be very handy in life because we would not need to talk just to read our minds. Big Grin
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05-03-2013, 01:48 AM
RE: Sam Parnia: Erasing Death book and AWARE study
Found it:
Parnia is clearly a man who has contemplated and researched these concepts for many years, driven by the context of his own father's tragic permanent loss of consciousness and of the various experiences
he has witnessed in emergency medicine.

From: http://www.amazon.com/Erasing-Death-Scie...0062080601
or just google it here: Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: Erasing Death: The Science That .

Here we can clearly see why Parnia is so hooked about it because of the loss of his own father and the others.
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05-03-2013, 02:00 AM (This post was last modified: 06-03-2013 01:40 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Sam Parnia: Erasing Death book and AWARE study
(04-03-2013 05:45 PM)Digitalelaine Wrote:  Hi there. As I understand it, the Aware Study has two aims. The first is to understand what happens to us when we die -what happens to our brain when we die - because there is still a lot we do not understand about the process of death. Sam Parnia's work has made huge strides in our understanding. He has shown categorically that death is not a moment but a process - and this has huge implications for the science of resuscitation both practically (in that now we know consciousness exists and survives for much longer after 'death' than we had previously thought, meaning that if we get the science right, we can bring people back as themselves) and of course ethically. There are ethical questions to ask about the merits of bringing people back because sometimes it may not be wise to do so and who makes those decisons? The second aim is to study NDE or as Dr Parnia has renamed them, Actual Death Experiences. He is asking whether there is evidence to show that Consciousness (our awareness or sense of self) continues to function outside of the brain. In order to explore this question using the scientific method, the study needs to record the timing of the experience (did the experience occur when the brain was flatlined and heart had stopped or after successful resuscitation) and to record veridical information. This is best gathered from people who had out of body experiences. There is a wealth of qualitative information already where hospital staff have verified that what patients have witnessed in the operating theatre and sometimes outside of the theatre, are correct and precise, but of course this doesnt count as scientic evidence as it can be seen as anecdotal. Parnia's work has attempted to change this by placing pictures on ceilings etc. Reading the IANDs news updates on Aware the conclusion so far seems to be that furthur studies are required - but that some data has indeed suggested that veridical experiences have been present during the Aware Study. We shall have to wait until the end of the year to discover precisely what was recorded. The radio interviews appear to suggest that those patients who did report OBE talked of looking at their bodies from the foot of the bed rather than the top of the ceiling and so research going forward will place images in different places. It is so easy to entrench oneself in rigid positions over this stuff. What does seem certain is that our current understanding of the brain is woefully thin. I think there is enough evidence (well I am convinced) to say that awareness, the self, consciousness remains after what we understand as clinical death but this could 'just' mean that 'death' takes longer than we ever previously thought possible. Perhaps once we hit that white light, we 'disolve'? Or it could mean that our awareness does not sit in the brain but elsewhere.....that it is part of a conscious universe...and continues? Whatever the answer is, we know that as human beings we will continue searching and asking questions because that is what we do.

Bunk. He has nothing new. Neurology has known for decades that a de-oxygenated brain is damaged beyond repair, and there is proof of that all over the world in medical centers where resuscitaion was successful relatively immediately yet brains are damaged for good. It's woo-woo. We know what happens when death occurs. Death is a processs, and no one argues that. That a mind is separate is not falsifiable, therefore it will NEVER be science. He's in it for the money and notariety. He knows he will never have any proof. Do other beings with consciousness have a "mind", that survives their death like apes and dolphins ?
He's a tool of the religious right. Oh goody. I get to have a pet Flipper in heaven. Give me a break.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist
Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things" (KJV)

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05-03-2013, 03:42 AM (This post was last modified: 05-03-2013 12:44 PM by Lukas1986.)
RE: Sam Parnia: Erasing Death book and AWARE study
(05-03-2013 02:00 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(04-03-2013 05:45 PM)Digitalelaine Wrote:  Hi there. As I understand it, the Aware Study has two aims. The first is to understand what happens to us when we die -what happens to our brain when we die - because there is still a lot we do not understand about the process of death. Sam Parnia's work has made huge strides in our understanding. He has shown categorically that death is not a moment but a process - and this has huge implications for the science of resuscitation both practically (in that now we know consciousness exists and survives for much longer after 'death' than we had previously thought, meaning that if we get the science right, we can bring people back as themselves) and of course ethically. There are ethical questions to ask about the merits of bringing people back because sometimes it may not be wise to do so and who makes those decisons? The second aim is to study NDE or as Dr Parnia has renamed them, Actual Death Experiences. He is asking whether there is evidence to show that Consciousness (our awareness or sense of self) continues to function outside of the brain. In order to explore this question using the scientific method, the study needs to record the timing of the experience (did the experience occur when the brain was flatlined and heart had stopped or after successful resuscitation) and to record veridical information. This is best gathered from people who had out of body experiences. There is a wealth of qualitative information already where hospital staff have verified that what patients have witnessed in the operating theatre and sometimes outside of the theatre, are correct and precise, but of course this doesnt count as scientic evidence as it can be seen as anecdotal. Parnia's work has attempted to change this by placing pictures on ceilings etc. Reading the IANDs news updates on Aware the conclusion so far seems to be that furthur studies are required - but that some data has indeed suggested that veridical experiences have been present during the Aware Study. We shall have to wait until the end of the year to discover precisely what was recorded. The radio interviews appear to suggest that those patients who did report OBE talked of looking at their bodies from the foot of the bed rather than the top of the ceiling and so research going forward will place images in different places. It is so easy to entrench oneself in rigid positions over this stuff. What does seem certain is that our current understanding of the brain is woefully thin. I think there is enough evidence (well I am convinced) to say that awareness, the self, consciousness remains after what we understand as clinical death but this could 'just' mean that 'death' takes longer than we ever previously thought possible. Perhaps once we hit that white light, we 'disolve'? Or it could mean that our awareness does not sit in the brain but elsewhere.....that it is part of a conscious universe...and continues? Whatever the answer is, we know that as human beings we will continue searching and asking questions because that is what we do.

Bunk. He has nothing new. Neurology has known for decades that a de-oxygenated brain is damaged beyond repair, and there is proof of that all over the world in medical centers where resuscitaion was successful relatively mmediately yet brains are damaged for good. It woo-woo. We know what happens when death occurs. Death is a processs, and no one argues that. That a mind is separate is not falsifiable, therefore it will NEVER be science. He's in it for the money and notariety. He knows he will never have any proof. Do other beings with consciousness have a "mind", that survives their death like apes and dolphins ?
He's a tool of the religious right. Oh goody. I get to have a pet Flipper in heaven. Give me a break.

You are right I think this also that he is after the money. Its the same with all of those paranormal woo masters. I just don't get it why people are so naive that people believe those things even now when CSI or James Randi have debunked so many people as charlatans and liars but its not only that. Many people are laying in this world from ordinary people to the media, judges, doctors and even scientists(pseudo types) and this is why I cannot understand that people are still so naive to believe this when there are so many lies in this world. I think people should be more skeptical about claims and not take every claim that someone with a MD title said and mostly if other evidence point to the contrary. Heck we could even believe priests that god exists because several of them have MD, Prof. and other titles beside their theology doctorate and they say that god exists. This is similar to Sam Parnia.
If Sam Parnias work or the work of other dualists like Greyson, Pim van Lommel or others would have some weight then neuroscience would be in a great shift from materialism to spiritualism but nothing like this is happening like several neuroscientists have pointed out already.

Scientists push to comprehend consciousness when neurons don’t fire, but cannot explain why near-death experiences are "luminous" for some while resulting in depression in others.

Another new review:www.publishersweekly.com › Home › Reviews

Here comes another question comes to my mind why people have depressions out of near-death experiences( they should be happy because life doesn't end no?) according to the review?? Also I doubt that there are no neurons firing..
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06-03-2013, 10:40 AM
RE: Sam Parnia: Erasing Death book and AWARE study
As a result of these advances, we can now study what these people experience in that period after their heart stops and before they are brought back to life, which includes seeing a warm light, a beautiful compassionate being, or the sensation of separating from the body and seeing doctors and nurses or family members talking (an out-of-body experience). But rather than approaching this from a religious or philosophical point of view, we can now approach it from a scientific and medical perspective. This is what inspired me to write Erasing Death: The Science That Is Rewriting the Boundaries Between Life and Death -- to share what I and other doctors are discovering in hospitals all over the world.

Old crap republished on a regular basis by new priest wanting to establish thier own religion.
All the experiences of "Near Death Experiences" are similar because the same physiological process is going on: the brain is starving for oxygen and nutrients. It's interesting to note that while the experiences are similar world-wide, they are all filtered through the cultural screen of the individual. Christians see Jesus, Muslims see their garden, and I have no idea what the Buddists see.
We all believe what we want, but dead is still dead.
One thing of note: its the cold that counts. Warm and dead equals rotting and you are not coming back. Cold and dead means preserved and you have a chance, but only because the doctors have a functional, flozen corpse to deal with. Note that often these reanimated corpses have lost all their short term memories (electrical basis) and retained their long term memories which are chemical based (therefor more stable).
It just goes to prove that we are just machines and nothing more special than that.
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06-03-2013, 03:15 PM
RE: Sam Parnia: Erasing Death book and AWARE study
Parnia's work has taken the research to a new level. As I said we have to wait until the research findings are released in the late Autumn before any of us draw substansive conclusions. And yes the patients studied in Aware WERE dead according to our current understanding of what death means. Our definition of death will change I suspect as we discover more. Also the fact that the man has released a book is not something to damn him with - many scientists and doctors and physicists and biologists write books about thier work. I think its called 'sharing discovery.' I also find it interesting that his father is mentioned. All of us lose a parent at some stage in our lives; sorry but I fail to see how this has biased his work in any way?? I think the Aware study will take us to a new dimension in our understanding and is to be applauded. And I would be very surprised if the findings were not peer reviewed.
(05-03-2013 12:17 AM)Lukas1986 Wrote:  
Quote:Hi there. As I understand it, the Aware Study has two aims. The first is to understand what happens to us when we die -what happens to our brain when we die - because there is still a lot we do not understand about the process of death. Sam Parnia's work has made huge strides in our understanding. He has shown categorically that death is not a moment but a process - and this has huge implications for the science of resuscitation both practically (in that now we know consciousness exists and survives for much longer after 'death' than we had previously thought, meaning that if we get the science right, we can bring people back as themselves) and of course ethically. There are ethical questions to ask about the merits of bringing people back because sometimes it may not be wise to do so and who makes those decisons? The second aim is to study NDE or as Dr Parnia has renamed them, Actual Death Experiences. He is asking whether there is evidence to show that Consciousness (our awareness or sense of self) continues to function outside of the brain. In order to explore this question using the scientific method, the study needs to record the timing of the experience (did the experience occur when the brain was flatlined and heart had stopped or after successful resuscitation) and to record veridical information. This is best gathered from people who had out of body experiences. There is a wealth of qualitative information already where hospital staff have verified that what patients have witnessed in the operating theatre and sometimes outside of the theatre, are correct and precise, but of course this doesnt count as scientic evidence as it can be seen as anecdotal. Parnia's work has attempted to change this by placing pictures on ceilings etc. Reading the IANDs news updates on Aware the conclusion so far seems to be that furthur studies are required - but that some data has indeed suggested that veridical experiences have been present during the Aware Study. We shall have to wait until the end of the year to discover precisely what was recorded. The radio interviews appear to suggest that those patients who did report OBE talked of looking at their bodies from the foot of the bed rather than the top of the ceiling and so research going forward will place images in different places. It is so easy to entrench oneself in rigid positions over this stuff. What does seem certain is that our current understanding of the brain is woefully thin. I think there is enough evidence (well I am convinced) to say that awareness, the self, consciousness remains after what we understand as clinical death but this could 'just' mean that 'death' takes longer than we ever previously thought possible. Perhaps once we hit that white light, we 'disolve'? Or it could mean that our awareness does not sit in the brain but elsewhere.....that it is part of a conscious universe...and continues? Whatever the answer is, we know that as human beings we will continue searching and asking questions because that is what we do.

Does he got evidence for this that death is a longer process?? Or just claims? Because like several people pointed out these people who he claimed were "dead" were not actually dead in the first place. A woman who should have been dead for 8 hours would not be resuscitated in the first place if there is no hope of recovery and besides this woman body temperature was above 20 C and there are people who had less then this and were returned back to life:
17 degrees Celsius body temperature--resuscitation successful?
Hungerer S, Ebenhoch M, Bühren V.
Source

Trauma Center Murnau, Prof. Küntscherstrasse 8, Murnau, Germany. shungerer@bgu–murnau.de
Abstract

The resuscitation of patients with accidental profound hypothermia is challenging. A 17-year-old man got lost on the first of January, after a New Year's Eve party in the foothills of the Alps. After a search of four hours, he was found unconscious with fixed pupils, a Glasgow Coma Scale of three points, and a body temperature below 20° Celsius. There were no signs for traumatic injuries. Initial electrocardiogram (ECG) showed no heart activity. Basic life support was begun by the mountain rescue service and continued by the medical helicopter team. The patient was transferred under continuous cardiac massage, airway management with intubation and intravenous line via external jugular vein by helicopter to the nearest hospital for analysis of serum potassium. Body temperature was 17°C measured by urinary bladder electronic thermometer. The serum potassium was 7.55 mmol/L, therefore the patient was transferred by helicopter to the next cardiovascular center for rewarming with extracorporal circulation (ECC). Under the rewarming process with ECC, the heart activity restarted at 25°C with external defibrillation. The patient was rewarmed to 37.2°C after four hours of ECC. Cerebral CT scans after 24 h and 48 h revealed no significant hypoxia and after extubation the early rehabilitation process started. After six weeks, the patient regained the ability to walk and started to communicate on a basic level. After 54 days the patient presented signs of septic shock. After initial stabilization and CT diagnostic, a laparotomy was performed. The intraoperative finding was a total necrosis of the small bowel and colon. The patient died on the same day. Post mortem examination showed a necrotizing enterocolitis with transmural necrosis of the bowel. Survivors of uncontrolled profound hypothermia below 20°C core temperature are rare. The epicrisis is often prolonged by complications of different causes. The present case reports a necrotizing enterocolitis with a non-occlusive mesenteric ischemia (NOMI) as a medium-term complication of profound hypothermia.

From this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21190505

According to this article Parnia has found nothing new only things we knew already and he forgets one thing that people who have less then 20 C in their body will have problems to survive after being resuscitated. Also Parnia is wrong that these experiences are after death no they are not. They are not even before death because like one skeptic pointed out brain cells do not die. Death occurs when brain cells die - quote from Lance Kennedy from the Skeptic forum. Besides cooling is used to save lives in the first place but its also limited just take a look here:

How does therapeutic hypothermia help?

Hypothermia counteracts neuroexcitation in brain cells by stabilizing calcium and glutamate release, reducing the degree of cell death. It also stabilizes the blood-brain barrier and suppresses the inflammatory process, reducing cerebral edema. Cerebral metabolism decreases 6% to 10% for every degree Celsius that body temperature drops. As cerebral metabolism declines, the brain needs less oxygen.

In essence, hypothermia counteracts many of the destructive mechanisms of cardiac arrest. Its effects resemble those of cardiac defibrillation, which makes the heart stop and then reset itself to a normal rhythm. Similarly, hypothermia halts destructive brain mechanisms and lets the brain reset itself to normal functioning.

Although the medical community has known of hypothermia’s potential benefits for years, this therapy gained support only after the New England Journal of Medicine published two landmark studies in 2002. The Hypothermia After Cardiac Arrest (HACA) study and the Bernard study showed significantly improved neurologic outcomes for the hypothermia group compared to the normothermia group. The HACA study also showed reduced mortality. Both studies included only patients with ventricular tachycardia and ventricular fibrillation.
Taken from: http://www.americannursetoday.com/articl...4&fid=7986
This is even old news because this article was release in the year 2011 which points out that Sam Parnia is only making a fuzz about his book to sell it to believers and to earn extra bucks because believers are so trusting people and they need only to hear good arguments and not actual proof. Parnia if he has some evidence then he should show them. So far he has shown nothing of interests only made new NDE stories similar to the ones people hear all the time.
When Parnia has some real evidence he should get it peer-reviewed and send it to a normal medical journal and not some Near Death journal where the likes of Greyson and other believers send it. So far he has brought no evidence and to correct you Digitalelaine we know a lot of the brain and there is no place for dualism in it in the first place:
please first read this:
http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index...rom-egnor/
http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index...o-kastrup/
http://neuroskeptic.blogspot.sk/2008/12/...ul-is.html
Then you can jump to conclusions what Parnia has made. Besides he is a believer in the afterlife because his father lost consciousness and it affected him - read it somewhere in a review of his book. Therefore he has a agenda and he wants it to be true and he became also a lackey of the Templeton Foundation because he asked money from them for his NDE research:
Taken from: http://forum.mind-energy.net/skeptiko-po...ew-16.html
The Templeton Foundation is pro-believers foundation which want religion to be true.
Taken from: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Templeton_Foundation
Also like several people pointed out why Sam Parnia will not publish the data in peer review but rather goes to Coast to Coast AM which is known as also a heaven for pseudoscience people:
Taken from: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Coast_to_Coast_AM
Another thing is the study should provide the fact that people saw the signs and no one did in the first place so far to my knowledge.
This whole thing stinks like with Eben Alexander who also had giant claims and arguments and only did this to sell books to believers and earn big bucks from it.
If this world is like the believers think that it is. It would be a very different world and I would have some form of ghost inside me that can read minds of people like Parnia is saying. Wow this would be very handy in life because we would not need to talk just to read our minds. Big Grin
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06-03-2013, 03:26 PM
RE: Sam Parnia: Erasing Death book and AWARE study
For your informtion:

"A graduate of the Guys and St. Thomas' medical schools in London, Dr.
Parnia obtained his doctorate in cell biology from the University of
Southampton. He has published numerous articles in peer reviewed
scientific journals in the field of pulmonary medicine as well as
near-death experiences, and is a current reviewer for the New England Journal of Medicine.

He has also served as a member of the Southampton University Trust
Hospital Resuscitation Committee, where he launched the first ever study
of near-death experiences in the UK. The results of the study received
widespread coverage and were published in the medical journal Resuscitation. Dr. Parnia is the author of What Happens When We Die, and his groundbreaking research has been featured on the BBC and Discovery documentary, The Day I Died and will be highlighted in an episode of the National Geographic series Explorer, "At the Moment of Death."

The man is obviously not shy about peer reviews.
(06-03-2013 03:15 PM)Digitalelaine Wrote:  Parnia's work has taken the research to a new level. As I said we have to wait until the research findings are released in the late Autumn before any of us draw substansive conclusions. And yes the patients studied in Aware WERE dead according to our current understanding of what death means. Our definition of death will change I suspect as we discover more. Also the fact that the man has released a book is not something to damn him with - many scientists and doctors and physicists and biologists write books about thier work. I think its called 'sharing discovery.' I also find it interesting that his father is mentioned. All of us lose a parent at some stage in our lives; sorry but I fail to see how this has biased his work in any way?? I think the Aware study will take us to a new dimension in our understanding and is to be applauded. And I would be very surprised if the findings were not peer reviewed.
(05-03-2013 12:17 AM)Lukas1986 Wrote:  Does he got evidence for this that death is a longer process?? Or just claims? Because like several people pointed out these people who he claimed were "dead" were not actually dead in the first place. A woman who should have been dead for 8 hours would not be resuscitated in the first place if there is no hope of recovery and besides this woman body temperature was above 20 C and there are people who had less then this and were returned back to life:
17 degrees Celsius body temperature--resuscitation successful?
Hungerer S, Ebenhoch M, Bühren V.
Source

Trauma Center Murnau, Prof. Küntscherstrasse 8, Murnau, Germany. shungerer@bgu–murnau.de
Abstract

The resuscitation of patients with accidental profound hypothermia is challenging. A 17-year-old man got lost on the first of January, after a New Year's Eve party in the foothills of the Alps. After a search of four hours, he was found unconscious with fixed pupils, a Glasgow Coma Scale of three points, and a body temperature below 20° Celsius. There were no signs for traumatic injuries. Initial electrocardiogram (ECG) showed no heart activity. Basic life support was begun by the mountain rescue service and continued by the medical helicopter team. The patient was transferred under continuous cardiac massage, airway management with intubation and intravenous line via external jugular vein by helicopter to the nearest hospital for analysis of serum potassium. Body temperature was 17°C measured by urinary bladder electronic thermometer. The serum potassium was 7.55 mmol/L, therefore the patient was transferred by helicopter to the next cardiovascular center for rewarming with extracorporal circulation (ECC). Under the rewarming process with ECC, the heart activity restarted at 25°C with external defibrillation. The patient was rewarmed to 37.2°C after four hours of ECC. Cerebral CT scans after 24 h and 48 h revealed no significant hypoxia and after extubation the early rehabilitation process started. After six weeks, the patient regained the ability to walk and started to communicate on a basic level. After 54 days the patient presented signs of septic shock. After initial stabilization and CT diagnostic, a laparotomy was performed. The intraoperative finding was a total necrosis of the small bowel and colon. The patient died on the same day. Post mortem examination showed a necrotizing enterocolitis with transmural necrosis of the bowel. Survivors of uncontrolled profound hypothermia below 20°C core temperature are rare. The epicrisis is often prolonged by complications of different causes. The present case reports a necrotizing enterocolitis with a non-occlusive mesenteric ischemia (NOMI) as a medium-term complication of profound hypothermia.

From this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21190505

According to this article Parnia has found nothing new only things we knew already and he forgets one thing that people who have less then 20 C in their body will have problems to survive after being resuscitated. Also Parnia is wrong that these experiences are after death no they are not. They are not even before death because like one skeptic pointed out brain cells do not die. Death occurs when brain cells die - quote from Lance Kennedy from the Skeptic forum. Besides cooling is used to save lives in the first place but its also limited just take a look here:

How does therapeutic hypothermia help?

Hypothermia counteracts neuroexcitation in brain cells by stabilizing calcium and glutamate release, reducing the degree of cell death. It also stabilizes the blood-brain barrier and suppresses the inflammatory process, reducing cerebral edema. Cerebral metabolism decreases 6% to 10% for every degree Celsius that body temperature drops. As cerebral metabolism declines, the brain needs less oxygen.

In essence, hypothermia counteracts many of the destructive mechanisms of cardiac arrest. Its effects resemble those of cardiac defibrillation, which makes the heart stop and then reset itself to a normal rhythm. Similarly, hypothermia halts destructive brain mechanisms and lets the brain reset itself to normal functioning.

Although the medical community has known of hypothermia’s potential benefits for years, this therapy gained support only after the New England Journal of Medicine published two landmark studies in 2002. The Hypothermia After Cardiac Arrest (HACA) study and the Bernard study showed significantly improved neurologic outcomes for the hypothermia group compared to the normothermia group. The HACA study also showed reduced mortality. Both studies included only patients with ventricular tachycardia and ventricular fibrillation.
Taken from: http://www.americannursetoday.com/articl...4&fid=7986
This is even old news because this article was release in the year 2011 which points out that Sam Parnia is only making a fuzz about his book to sell it to believers and to earn extra bucks because believers are so trusting people and they need only to hear good arguments and not actual proof. Parnia if he has some evidence then he should show them. So far he has shown nothing of interests only made new NDE stories similar to the ones people hear all the time.
When Parnia has some real evidence he should get it peer-reviewed and send it to a normal medical journal and not some Near Death journal where the likes of Greyson and other believers send it. So far he has brought no evidence and to correct you Digitalelaine we know a lot of the brain and there is no place for dualism in it in the first place:
please first read this:
http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index...rom-egnor/
http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index...o-kastrup/
http://neuroskeptic.blogspot.sk/2008/12/...ul-is.html
Then you can jump to conclusions what Parnia has made. Besides he is a believer in the afterlife because his father lost consciousness and it affected him - read it somewhere in a review of his book. Therefore he has a agenda and he wants it to be true and he became also a lackey of the Templeton Foundation because he asked money from them for his NDE research:
Taken from: http://forum.mind-energy.net/skeptiko-po...ew-16.html
The Templeton Foundation is pro-believers foundation which want religion to be true.
Taken from: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Templeton_Foundation
Also like several people pointed out why Sam Parnia will not publish the data in peer review but rather goes to Coast to Coast AM which is known as also a heaven for pseudoscience people:
Taken from: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Coast_to_Coast_AM
Another thing is the study should provide the fact that people saw the signs and no one did in the first place so far to my knowledge.
This whole thing stinks like with Eben Alexander who also had giant claims and arguments and only did this to sell books to believers and earn big bucks from it.
If this world is like the believers think that it is. It would be a very different world and I would have some form of ghost inside me that can read minds of people like Parnia is saying. Wow this would be very handy in life because we would not need to talk just to read our minds. Big Grin
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06-03-2013, 03:42 PM
RE: Sam Parnia: Erasing Death book and AWARE study
(06-03-2013 03:15 PM)Digitalelaine Wrote:  And yes the patients studied in Aware WERE dead according to our current understanding of what death means.
Since there are several different scientific views of what constitutes "death", you'll have to specify what you're talking about when you refer to "our current understanding".

One thing we do know for certain is that the studied patients were not brain dead.

Wikipedia Wrote:Brain death is the irreversible end of all brain activity (including involuntary activity necessary to sustain life) due to total necrosis of the cerebral neurons following loss of brain oxygenation. It should not be confused with a persistent vegetative state. Patients classified as brain dead can have their organs surgically removed for organ donation. Even after brain death, the working of the heart might continue at a slow pace, but there will be no respiratory effort.

Brain death, either of the whole brain or the brain stem, is used as a legal indicator of death in many jurisdictions.

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