Sandy Hook Conspiracy.
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17-01-2013, 06:54 AM
RE: Sandy Hook Conspiracy.
(16-01-2013 11:58 PM)Nappa Wrote:  
(16-01-2013 11:50 PM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  That is the beauty of conspiracy theories.

They look at the media and say they don't trust media, so the more the media says the more the conspiracy nutjobs distrust what is being said. Then they turn around and quote-mine the (untrustworthy) media as proof of their theory; somehow they can disregard everything the media says except the points that they believe support their "proof".

They look at evidence and say they don't trust the evidence, it's all made up, so the more evidence the authorities "make up" the more the conspiracy nutjobs distrust the evidence. They then turn around and latch onto small, random bits of evidence, usually taken out of context and poorly reported or presented, as proof of their theory; somehow they can dismiss all evidence except the bits that they believe support their "proof".

Then they put on their tinfoil hats and ignore everything anyone says to try to steer them back toward reason.

You won't get any evidence, extraordinary or otherwise, but you will still get the extraordinary claims - the more extraordinary the claim is, the more they believe it.
Pardon me sir, but I am not ignoring you. As for my 'small evidence' used to discredit this event, it is still more evidence than that which the government supplied me with. Pardon me twice sir, but I would not say that a story told by an eye-witness that changes over time can be just dismissed so lightly. If this were a murder trial, and the eye-witness said it was a different person than what he originally said. That's a pretty big consequential factor do you not agree? Pardon me thrice sir, but I would not say that a persons emotional state can be dismissed either, from laughing to crying in just mere seconds, or a permanent sunny disposition at the tragic loss of one of their children. These things can not be overlooked as easily as you would like them to be.

Perhaps sir, if you will excuse me for saying this, perhaps it is you who chooses to intentionally shrug off the things that don't add up? Maybe if you contemplated on them seriously you might find why such errors can lead a person to doubt the integrity of this event?


Sandy Hook - Hurricane Sandy.

Coincidence?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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17-01-2013, 07:55 AM
RE: Sandy Hook Conspiracy.
(16-01-2013 08:15 PM)Nappa Wrote:  
(16-01-2013 07:57 PM)kineo Wrote:  No, I'm not mad. I am annoyed. Meanwhile, between posts, I am enjoying the rest of my life- watching Sherlock, eating cheese and crackers, kicking back in my seat, petting my dogs, getting ready to fire up Guild Wars 2 for a bit.

However, in dealing with someone as bullheaded as TheArcticSage and as arrogant as Egor on a topic of high sensitivity to the rest of the nation, I'm surprisingly reserved in my emotion and posts.

Most of the time I'd have a laugh and ignore you. But this time I felt compelled to address the absurdity you've put forth as if it were some sort of exceptional and insightful evidence.
My lack of emotional understanding is one of my major setbacks. I can never see how something could be so sensitive to a person if it did not happen to them personally. The only thing I can compare it to is religion. When you attack a person's god they take it personally as if you were attacking them. I have been trying to understand the concept of perspective and the damaging effects emotion can have on rationalization but I don't know where exactly I should begin. Perhaps I should commit myself to finding subjects to study?

As for my 'evidence' I've told you before that if it outweighs what I am originally brought then my mind is willingly open to change. My mind has been changed, and now if you or the government are able to bring forth counter-evidence that outweighed my current knowledge my mind would be subject to change yet again. In the course of rationalization one can not stay like a rock in a river, but instead has to flow with the water of information.
Do you have a lack of understanding of empathy? I ask that legitimately because one of my closest friends these days about how growing up he never grasped empathy or even knew what it meant; not until he had a long time GF around when he was in his young 20s have him actually figure out the concept. It really is nothing more than a base emotion of empathy that makes people care about situations outside their own deeply.

As far as "the government" bring out counter-evidence. That's nothing anyone ought to expect. There is no reason for organizations or people in general to have to respond to any random purposed idea/critique/conspiracy. If that was how things worked, a lot less time would be focused on doing anything for actual gain.

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17-01-2013, 08:42 AM
RE: Sandy Hook Conspiracy.
And another bit of rationality.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
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17-01-2013, 11:14 AM (This post was last modified: 17-01-2013 11:22 AM by Nappa.)
RE: Sandy Hook Conspiracy.
(17-01-2013 08:42 AM)Chas Wrote:  And another bit of rationality.
An inconsistency is still an inconsistency, no matter how much you try to wave it off as being unimportant. Stop being so christian about your government.

Eerrrr my gersh dan govment is so stooped teys coulds neva doo aneeting bad!

I fucking hate that response. It literally has the same logical bearing as.

Eerrr if hoomen evulvad frum moneykeys who came moneykeys steel exist?





So despite all the inconsistencies, like a christian and all the logical inconsisties in the Bible. Your bible is your government. Which you just toss all the inconsistencies you don't like aside and cherry pick whatever you want.

Lastly but leastly. Everyone fucking agrees that the government is corrupt, it astounds me that people don't believe that they could actually catch the government in a corrupt action.

It's like saying this.

Eerr my govment is kerupt butt I ain't eva gonna sea it's keruption. To which all I can say is that the lack of inquisitive prowess in this society is mildly depressing.

I mean I am starting to think that the only reason there's so many atheists in the world is that they only stopped believing in a god because it suited their own personal desires and not because it was the most logical choice. Such things would explain why some atheists readily jump back into religion and a belief in a god. Because it suits their own personal desires.

Also all of my Eerrs are supposed to be read in a redneck fashion. I grew up around rednecks, I know exactly how retarded sounds.

"The government can't keep their sex lives a secret, how can they possibly keep something of (insert something here) and that magnitude a secret? You've seen the people in office, they're stupid, our government is stupid they couldn't possibly pull something like this off."

My reactions





Because I literally feel I strangle someone for saying something so stupid.
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17-01-2013, 02:12 PM
RE: Sandy Hook Conspiracy.
Hmmm, I was initially offended by your low opinion of me and of atheists in general, by your sweeping generalizations and condescending assumptions. But then I considered the source and my ire became pity. I realize you can't help it. You're a product of your environment and a slave to your own paranoia and delusions. I can't fix that so I won't try to argue any points or show you the error of your ways. You wouldn't want to hear it anyway. All I can do, little as it is, is express my pity and my hopes that someday you're able to overcome your many challenges.

If you ever get tired of living in fear and isolation and decide to really reach out and get some help, just know that there are people who can help you, and the life you can lead one day will be infinitely better than the life your are suffering now.


Best of luck to you.

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17-01-2013, 07:18 PM (This post was last modified: 17-01-2013 07:22 PM by Nappa.)
RE: Sandy Hook Conspiracy.
(17-01-2013 02:12 PM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  Hmmm, I was initially offended by your low opinion of me and of atheists in general, by your sweeping generalizations and condescending assumptions. But then I considered the source and my ire became pity. I realize you can't help it. You're a product of your environment and a slave to your own paranoia and delusions. I can't fix that so I won't try to argue any points or show you the error of your ways. You wouldn't want to hear it anyway. All I can do, little as it is, is express my pity and my hopes that someday you're able to overcome your many challenges.

If you ever get tired of living in fear and isolation and decide to really reach out and get some help, just know that there are people who can help you, and the life you can lead one day will be infinitely better than the life your are suffering now.


Best of luck to you.
You were offended because I had a low opinion of you and other atheists? To quote kineo. "Just how self important do you think you are?" My generalizations and my assumptions are both usually correct. Maybe one of the reasons I have a low opinion of other atheists is because of the way they conduct themselves during logical debates? I did assume that you folks would reply with irrational and emotional responses, and I was right.

I am not a slave of paranoia or delusions, I am a slave to the economy. I am the economies bitch, I rebel by simply not getting into debt. Which would mainly happen by me going to college, which apparently the U.S. has 1 trillion dollars in student debt. I can not even begin to fathom how much debt home and car owners are in since the usual home goes for about 100,000+ (I plan on getting a nice little mobile home for around 10,000. It's cheap and I could save up for it) As for my car I inherited this one and I'm still using it but I do plan on getting a cheap 2,000$ car. So given that that's only 12,000$ which could be paid with half a years wages for most jobs. But I gotta remember expenses on rent, car insurance, gas, food, clothes, misc (such as books) before I can pay for a decent used car and a decent home. I am a man who has only ever known poverty up until a few years ago, I grew up in it. Therefore I can humble myself with things which would be beneath that of others.

When I was 12, my father had the better standards of living, but he was also a christian. My mother's home however (they are divorced) was very poor, and she would often get drunk and have drunken 'brawls' with my step-father. Needless to say I chose my mother's house to live in. Because I could be free to believe whatever I wanted. I could expand my rational thought without any hindrance from that of an over-bearing christian father. 3 years later I was agnostic and 4 years later I Was an atheist. My mother's abuse of alcohol would forever drive me away from any alcoholic beverage, and my father's closed-minded views on how the world should be drove my away from him. But it was when I was 15, it was when I was 15 that I deeply suspected my government of treachery, I had been exposed to no conspiracy theory about anything. Rather it was the ongoing war in the middle east which would shape my mind. It was when I was 15 that I learned what propaganda truly was, which happened any time I would turn on my T.V. and saw news about the war. They never broadcasted the civilian casualties (which are immense) nor did they broadcast the fact that they bombed entire villages just because they were suspected of harboring 'terrorists'. And by terrorists I mean rebels who were simply fed up with the ongoing injustice which was allowed to be done to their people because of the ignorance of their situation.

When I was 15 I first doubted the authenticity of the 9/11 attacks, but I was 15 I had no idea what conspiracy theory was except that it usually meant whack job. Which surprisingly was a form early of early propaganda that had ultimately made my opinion biased and I had failed to see that. So it would 4 years to question the attacks of 9/11, but it was because I open my mind to the possibility that it could have been an inside job early on that allowed me to change my opinion later down the road. Where as you? I doubt you even consider anything like this possible due to your same closed-minded views my father has.

I don't want your pity, I only want your rationality.
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18-01-2013, 06:00 AM
RE: Sandy Hook Conspiracy.
(17-01-2013 07:18 PM)Nappa Wrote:  
(17-01-2013 02:12 PM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  Hmmm, I was initially offended by your low opinion of me and of atheists in general, by your sweeping generalizations and condescending assumptions. But then I considered the source and my ire became pity. I realize you can't help it. You're a product of your environment and a slave to your own paranoia and delusions. I can't fix that so I won't try to argue any points or show you the error of your ways. You wouldn't want to hear it anyway. All I can do, little as it is, is express my pity and my hopes that someday you're able to overcome your many challenges.

If you ever get tired of living in fear and isolation and decide to really reach out and get some help, just know that there are people who can help you, and the life you can lead one day will be infinitely better than the life your are suffering now.


Best of luck to you.
You were offended because I had a low opinion of you and other atheists? To quote kineo. "Just how self important do you think you are?" My generalizations and my assumptions are both usually correct. Maybe one of the reasons I have a low opinion of other atheists is because of the way they conduct themselves during logical debates? I did assume that you folks would reply with irrational and emotional responses, and I was right.

I am not a slave of paranoia or delusions, I am a slave to the economy. I am the economies bitch, I rebel by simply not getting into debt. Which would mainly happen by me going to college, which apparently the U.S. has 1 trillion dollars in student debt. I can not even begin to fathom how much debt home and car owners are in since the usual home goes for about 100,000+ (I plan on getting a nice little mobile home for around 10,000. It's cheap and I could save up for it) As for my car I inherited this one and I'm still using it but I do plan on getting a cheap 2,000$ car. So given that that's only 12,000$ which could be paid with half a years wages for most jobs. But I gotta remember expenses on rent, car insurance, gas, food, clothes, misc (such as books) before I can pay for a decent used car and a decent home. I am a man who has only ever known poverty up until a few years ago, I grew up in it. Therefore I can humble myself with things which would be beneath that of others.

When I was 12, my father had the better standards of living, but he was also a christian. My mother's home however (they are divorced) was very poor, and she would often get drunk and have drunken 'brawls' with my step-father. Needless to say I chose my mother's house to live in. Because I could be free to believe whatever I wanted. I could expand my rational thought without any hindrance from that of an over-bearing christian father. 3 years later I was agnostic and 4 years later I Was an atheist. My mother's abuse of alcohol would forever drive me away from any alcoholic beverage, and my father's closed-minded views on how the world should be drove my away from him. But it was when I was 15, it was when I was 15 that I deeply suspected my government of treachery, I had been exposed to no conspiracy theory about anything. Rather it was the ongoing war in the middle east which would shape my mind. It was when I was 15 that I learned what propaganda truly was, which happened any time I would turn on my T.V. and saw news about the war. They never broadcasted the civilian casualties (which are immense) nor did they broadcast the fact that they bombed entire villages just because they were suspected of harboring 'terrorists'. And by terrorists I mean rebels who were simply fed up with the ongoing injustice which was allowed to be done to their people because of the ignorance of their situation.

When I was 15 I first doubted the authenticity of the 9/11 attacks, but I was 15 I had no idea what conspiracy theory was except that it usually meant whack job. Which surprisingly was a form early of early propaganda that had ultimately made my opinion biased and I had failed to see that. So it would 4 years to question the attacks of 9/11, but it was because I open my mind to the possibility that it could have been an inside job early on that allowed me to change my opinion later down the road. Where as you? I doubt you even consider anything like this possible due to your same closed-minded views my father has.

I don't want your pity, I only want your rationality.


As for 9/11 or Sandy Hook, you are making an extraordinary claim. Where is your extraordinary evidence?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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18-01-2013, 07:17 AM (This post was last modified: 18-01-2013 07:24 AM by Nappa.)
RE: Sandy Hook Conspiracy.
(18-01-2013 06:00 AM)Chas Wrote:  As for 9/11 or Sandy Hook, you are making an extraordinary claim. Where is your extraordinary evidence?
If you think such events are extraordinary then may carl sagan have mercy on your poor delusional soul.

I'm claiming this man is fat, you can obviously see he is fat. We have no quarrel over this.

[Image: fat-man.jpg]

I claim someone has lied to you, I bring evidence that they've lied to you. Now we have an issue. Claiming someone has lied to you is NOT an extraordinary claim. It's a rather ordinary claim which people want to be extraordinary so they don't have to believe that they've been lied to.





The problem isn't me, it's you.
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18-01-2013, 07:24 AM
RE: Sandy Hook Conspiracy.
(18-01-2013 07:17 AM)Nappa Wrote:  
(18-01-2013 06:00 AM)Chas Wrote:  As for 9/11 or Sandy Hook, you are making an extraordinary claim. Where is your extraordinary evidence?
If you think such events are extraordinary then may carl sagan have mercy on your poor delusional soul.

I'm claiming this man is fat, you can obviously see he is fat. We have no quarrel over this.

[Image: fat-man.jpg]

I claim someone has lied to you, I bring evidence that they've lied to you. Now we have an issue.





The problem isn't me, it's you.


The problem is your gullibility.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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18-01-2013, 07:37 AM (This post was last modified: 18-01-2013 07:44 AM by Nappa.)
RE: Sandy Hook Conspiracy.
(18-01-2013 07:24 AM)Chas Wrote:  The problem is your gullibility.
I'm the person who doesn't believe the first thing he hears, I merely accept it as a likely possibility until I can find supporting or contradictory evidence. I see a man change testimony on camera (the rosen guy did do this) that is highly suspicious and worthy of speculation alone and in itself. I see three people (including the rosen guy) who are over exerting themselves in their emotion. The Rosen guy is more depressed even though he personally wasn't subject to a tragic loss. The two parents in the one interview have a sunny disposition despite the fact that their child was just murdered in cold blood a week or two before the interview, a man turns from laughing and having a good time to shedding tears after 'composing' himself.

Am I really the one who is gullible here?

I sincerely feel sorry for you if you believe everything you hear on the news.

This explains the news/media perfectly.




Your situation is so embarrassing that I'm actually starting to feel embarrassed FOR you!
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