Sandy Hook Conspiracy.
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15-01-2013, 03:08 PM
RE: Sandy Hook Conspiracy.
(15-01-2013 02:57 PM)Nappa Wrote:  
(15-01-2013 11:28 AM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  I don't know if this conspiracy theory says much about society. Maybe if society in general takes up the hue and cry. But for now, it looks like one guy made a video. Just how much support is the video getting? Dozens of nutjobs? Hundreds? Thousands?

Even if it is thousands of nutjobs supporting this video, that's only about 1% of US society, so all that would say about society is that about 1% of us are nutjobs.

Once it becomes a prevailing theory, then it might make me worry about society.
Good sir, you are basing your opinion without evidence. Mine requires evidence, since the shooting I have not seen any photos of dead children, nor any amount of physical evidence that would suggest it ever happened besides that of a few guns found on the scence. The video posted makes some very good points. Perhaps you ought to give it a watch.

Of course from the moment it happened I felt no pity for the children if they in fact did die. You see children die everyday, and for me to feel sorry for some more than others is being quite unfair of me. So I choose to feel sorry for neither, it also allows me to keep a cool head on me. Where I suspect you might be more emotionally driven and therefore more prone to believing without said evidence.


The press will never print pictures of the dead children. It would be illegal to do so without their parents' permission; then it would only be tasteless.

That video is not credible in any aspect, so your giving it any credence is an interesting reflection on your rationality.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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15-01-2013, 03:21 PM
RE: Sandy Hook Conspiracy.
(15-01-2013 03:08 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(15-01-2013 02:57 PM)Nappa Wrote:  Good sir, you are basing your opinion without evidence. Mine requires evidence, since the shooting I have not seen any photos of dead children, nor any amount of physical evidence that would suggest it ever happened besides that of a few guns found on the scence. The video posted makes some very good points. Perhaps you ought to give it a watch.

Of course from the moment it happened I felt no pity for the children if they in fact did die. You see children die everyday, and for me to feel sorry for some more than others is being quite unfair of me. So I choose to feel sorry for neither, it also allows me to keep a cool head on me. Where I suspect you might be more emotionally driven and therefore more prone to believing without said evidence.


The press will never print pictures of the dead children. It would be illegal to do so without their parents' permission; then it would only be tasteless.

That video is not credible in any aspect, so your giving it any credence is an interesting reflection on your rationality.
What can be given without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. This guy is giving me logical arguments against the sandy hook shooting may not have ever happened in the first place. And to be honest I'm inclined to believing him after the video.

Makes me wonder if the government might of hoaxed any other shootings. My suspicion of my own government and my emotional detachment to all things is what drives my rationality in order to give someone the benefit of the doubt when they're able to propose a well organized argument.

So you not giving the man the benefit of the doubt no matter how much evidence he offers in return is an interesting reflection on your rationality.
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15-01-2013, 03:25 PM
RE: Sandy Hook Conspiracy.
(15-01-2013 03:21 PM)Nappa Wrote:  
(15-01-2013 03:08 PM)Chas Wrote:  The press will never print pictures of the dead children. It would be illegal to do so without their parents' permission; then it would only be tasteless.

That video is not credible in any aspect, so your giving it any credence is an interesting reflection on your rationality.
What can be given without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. This guy is giving me logical arguments against the sandy hook shooting may not have ever happened in the first place. And to be honest I'm inclined to believing him after the video.

Makes me wonder if the government might of hoaxed any other shootings. My suspicion of my own government and my emotional detachment to all things is what drives my rationality in order to give someone the benefit of the doubt when they're able to propose a well organized argument.

So you not giving the man the benefit of the doubt no matter how much evidence he offers in return is an interesting reflection on your rationality.
He does not offer credible evidence.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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15-01-2013, 03:28 PM
RE: Sandy Hook Conspiracy.
Of course I'm emotionally driven; I'm a human. You're emotionally driven too but you just think it's cool to pretend you're not.

You are right, I am forming (not basing) my opinion without evidence. But you aren't relying on evidence either, but by your own admission, the lack thereof. Sorry, when my relatives die, I don't paste the internet with photos of their dead bodies and I imagine the grieving parents of the Sandy Hook victims are likewise disinclined to do the same.

Evidence in situations like this is generally suppressed for a number of good reasons.
1. Ongoing investigations are ruined by putting evidence out there - if this guy did have an accomplice, they releasing evidence to the press that tips off the accomplice that he's being sought, or that the authorities know who he is or where to find him, would only make him run away. Withholding that evidence gives the accomplice (if there is one) a sense of security, or at least doubt.
2. Trials are ruined by putting evidence out there - if there is going to be a trial, you want an unbiased jury to see the evidence for the first time at the trial rather than seeing it months earlier on CNN.
3. Future murderers are aided by putting evidence out there - if someone else is planning to commit a similar crime, revealing the evidence and techniques the investigators use to catch the current murderers is just giving a road map of specific things the next guys should avoid while committing their own murders.

So no, I don't find lack of evidence surprising. In this case there was more than enough evidence of the event, and nobody but a few lunatics saying otherwise. You weren't there. Thousands of reporters and witnesses were there. Those thousands are contradicting you.

This trumped up video (which I did watch) doesn't change that; it only means there are two of you and the other guy is much more persuasive at presenting his point than you.

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15-01-2013, 03:31 PM
RE: Sandy Hook Conspiracy.
(15-01-2013 03:25 PM)Chas Wrote:  He does not offer credible evidence.
Parents who are light-hearted about the whole situation, laughing smiling, seems odd. And that one 'father' getting into character. Yeah I gave him that. The lack of any children on scene besides that one photo. Contradicting stories 'tis true'.

So for you who are trying to 'prove' this, what are you going to offer me in return?
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15-01-2013, 03:39 PM (This post was last modified: 15-01-2013 03:43 PM by Nappa.)
RE: Sandy Hook Conspiracy.
(15-01-2013 03:28 PM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  Of course I'm emotionally driven; I'm a human. You're emotionally driven too but you just think it's cool to pretend you're not.

You are right, I am forming (not basing) my opinion without evidence. But you aren't relying on evidence either, but by your own admission, the lack thereof. Sorry, when my relatives die, I don't paste the internet with photos of their dead bodies and I imagine the grieving parents of the Sandy Hook victims are likewise disinclined to do the same.

Evidence in situations like this is generally suppressed for a number of good reasons.
1. Ongoing investigations are ruined by putting evidence out there - if this guy did have an accomplice, they releasing evidence to the press that tips off the accomplice that he's being sought, or that the authorities know who he is or where to find him, would only make him run away. Withholding that evidence gives the accomplice (if there is one) a sense of security, or at least doubt.
2. Trials are ruined by putting evidence out there - if there is going to be a trial, you want an unbiased jury to see the evidence for the first time at the trial rather than seeing it months earlier on CNN.
3. Future murderers are aided by putting evidence out there - if someone else is planning to commit a similar crime, revealing the evidence and techniques the investigators use to catch the current murderers is just giving a road map of specific things the next guys should avoid while committing their own murders.

So no, I don't find lack of evidence surprising. In this case there was more than enough evidence of the event, and nobody but a few lunatics saying otherwise. You weren't there. Thousands of reporters and witnesses were there. Those thousands are contradicting you.

This trumped up video (which I did watch) doesn't change that; it only means there are two of you and the other guy is much more persuasive at presenting his point than you.
I have a passion for knowledge, that doesn't exactly ruin my ability to be a critical thinker, in fact it has the effect of actually helping me be unbiased. Wink Also why would you base your opinion without evidence? That seems rather hypocritical of a critical thinker don't you think?

1. Pretty sure if they thought there was an accomplice they would have found him by now, not to mention the place must have been crawling with police.

2. Yes I can see how evidence might be able to dissuade a jury from finding them innocent. Because the trials of OJ Simpson and Casey Anthony are able to show me clearly just how corrupt our court systems are over here.

3. Future incidents are provoked by prolonged media attention. If someone wanted to do something similar all they'd have to do is walk inside a school with a gun. The fact that they'd get so much media attention probably drives them.

Eye-witness testimonies mean nothing to me. People lie. And if they're going to claim something I expect evidence to follow and not just the honor of their word.



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15-01-2013, 03:44 PM
RE: Sandy Hook Conspiracy.
(15-01-2013 03:31 PM)Nappa Wrote:  
(15-01-2013 03:25 PM)Chas Wrote:  He does not offer credible evidence.
Parents who are light-hearted about the whole situation, laughing smiling, seems odd. And that one 'father' getting into character. Yeah I gave him that. The lack of any children on scene besides that one photo. Contradicting stories 'tis true'.

So for you who are trying to 'prove' this, what are you going to offer me in return?

The father getting into character?! He didn't seem overjoyed -- he took a moment to gain composure. . The other clip of the mother....did you actually see the whole interview with AC? Also note the maker of the video cut the sound -- just another trick used to bolster his weak position.

Wind's in the east, a mist coming in
Like something is brewing and about to begin
Can't put my finger on what lies in store
but I feel what's to happen has happened before...


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15-01-2013, 03:52 PM (This post was last modified: 15-01-2013 04:19 PM by Nappa.)
RE: Sandy Hook Conspiracy.
(15-01-2013 03:44 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(15-01-2013 03:31 PM)Nappa Wrote:  Parents who are light-hearted about the whole situation, laughing smiling, seems odd. And that one 'father' getting into character. Yeah I gave him that. The lack of any children on scene besides that one photo. Contradicting stories 'tis true'.

So for you who are trying to 'prove' this, what are you going to offer me in return?

The father getting into character?! He didn't seem overjoyed -- he took a moment to gain composure. . The other clip of the mother....did you actually see the whole interview with AC? Also note the maker of the video cut the sound -- just another trick used to bolster his weak position.
Well there's the child who was supposedly killed, sitting with the president. That makes a strong argument right there if it's true. I did not watch the interview with AC, and the only thing I saw about this case was on the day it happened. I remember shaming the media for broadcasting incidents like this on a national and even sometimes an international scale. Remember how I said that the media provokes incidents like this by the mere act of giving them so much attention?

I'd be more than willing to give the interview a browse but I'm not going to go out of my way to look for it. But it won't change my opinion right now. Right now I need evidence, not testimonies.

I do wonder why this 'conspiracy' is so incredibly weak though. Out of all the conspiracies I've decided on, this one took me the least amount of time. Usually I put more effort in before making a final decision. I suppose it's because I might of not been offered any evidence to begin with. And the lack of evidence for this case is admirable. It makes me wonder if this is a conspiracy designed to make conspiracy theorists look bad. I mean there are some incredible plot holes here, the work is very sloppy. Though the government is actively out to discredit conspiracy theorists so it's no surprise really. I mean not believing this would look kind of bad.
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15-01-2013, 04:58 PM
RE: Sandy Hook Conspiracy.
(15-01-2013 03:52 PM)Nappa Wrote:  
(15-01-2013 03:44 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  The father getting into character?! He didn't seem overjoyed -- he took a moment to gain composure. . The other clip of the mother....did you actually see the whole interview with AC? Also note the maker of the video cut the sound -- just another trick used to bolster his weak position.
Well there's the child who was supposedly killed, sitting with the president. That makes a strong argument right there if it's true. I did not watch the interview with AC, and the only thing I saw about this case was on the day it happened. I remember shaming the media for broadcasting incidents like this on a national and even sometimes an international scale. Remember how I said that the media provokes incidents like this by the mere act of giving them so much attention?

I'd be more than willing to give the interview a browse but I'm not going to go out of my way to look for it. But it won't change my opinion right now. Right now I need evidence, not testimonies.

I do wonder why this 'conspiracy' is so incredibly weak though. Out of all the conspiracies I've decided on, this one took me the least amount of time. Usually I put more effort in before making a final decision. I suppose it's because I might of not been offered any evidence to begin with. And the lack of evidence for this case is admirable. It makes me wonder if this is a conspiracy designed to make conspiracy theorists look bad. I mean there are some incredible plot holes here, the work is very sloppy. Though the government is actively out to discredit conspiracy theorists so it's no surprise really. I mean not believing this would look kind of bad.

The child was her sister. The dress was Emelie's. You can tell its a little big when you look at the photograph the parents released and the girl with the president....

But you're not going to go out of your way to look at for at the fact....no....you're going to watch a six minute YouTube video made by a crackpot and say that's all the evidence you require to prove it didn't happen at all.

Wind's in the east, a mist coming in
Like something is brewing and about to begin
Can't put my finger on what lies in store
but I feel what's to happen has happened before...


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15-01-2013, 05:03 PM
RE: Sandy Hook Conspiracy.
(15-01-2013 03:52 PM)Nappa Wrote:  I do wonder why this 'conspiracy' is so incredibly weak though. Out of all the conspiracies I've decided on, this one took me the least amount of time. Usually I put more effort in before making a final decision. I suppose it's because I might of not been offered any evidence to begin with. And the lack of evidence for this case is admirable. It makes me wonder if this is a conspiracy designed to make conspiracy theorists look bad. I mean there are some incredible plot holes here, the work is very sloppy. Though the government is actively out to discredit conspiracy theorists so it's no surprise really. I mean not believing this would look kind of bad.

So now it's a conspiracy to make conspiracy theorists look bad? Fucking really?! Is that really what you think or are you "just asking questions, man"?
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