Sandy Hook Conspiracy.
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16-01-2013, 01:04 AM (This post was last modified: 16-01-2013 01:46 AM by Nappa.)
RE: Sandy Hook Conspiracy.
(16-01-2013 12:41 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Why should I waste my time providing you any evidence, especially if its information that's readily available to anyone who can use a computer? You've made it clear you won't bother reading and it won't change your mind -- what's the point? If your curious, by all means conduct your own research.
Oh god! it's only getting worse! Jesus Christ how much fucking media attention did this thing get? I'm watching this interview you told me of, 10 days after the shooting, and she is so happy. I'm not seeing a tear. This is by far one of the most boring things I've ever seen.





This is the one you're talking about right? This can NOT be right NOT AT ALL! Love is A POWERFUL emotion and a MOTHER WOULD LOVE her children! When the bond of love is BROKEN there are reactions of hate and anguish, this has none of them! The only logical explanation I can even think of is anti-depression pills. My mother was on 'happy pills' after her father died. But she still cried at the funeral even when she was on the pills. And she was very depressed after words. But this? THIS?! Oh dear god no. This doesn't mention one tear, and it's happy all the way through. HEY GUYS! I just lost my child and EVERYTHING IS JUST FUCKING RAINBOWS AND UNICORNS!





Sorry, just a little peeved right now, just wasted 11 minutes for nothing. God it was like watching a christian talk about god, I've never seen such mushy talk about happiness and joy except when listening to Christians. You would think she'd at least talk about how traumatic the event was for them. NOPE! Never happened. I'll tell you now that the part where he muted out the sound was so much better.

And don't even get me started about the old man who had 6 children on his lawn, that guy is an obvious liar, we have contradicting stories that he himself says on camera. Not to mention, the fact that he didn't call the police after the children told him that their teacher had been shot. You would think a responsible member of society would contact some form of law enforcement so that they could contact the parents so they or the parents could take custody of them.

Plus he says he was on his way to work? Most people his age that I know of are retired. Except my grandmother, she was a teacher for quite some time. I wonder if you people even know how to observe another human being and their emotional responses, I anticipate your hate when I say something that you don't agree with. Why? Because that's natural for a human to do, they'll hate whatever they don't agree with. Especially when it's controversial like conspiracy theories, or politics, or some minor historical events. (be advised I consider most of human history to be of the minor part)

Here's how I observe people I look into their eyes. The old man closes his eyes at least half the time he's talking, the only time I close my eyes when I'm talking is when I'm trying to imagine things. Just like when momsurroundedbyboys said that the guy was 'gaining composure' yeah he was gaining composure alright, he was imagining being there as if it actually happened to 'feel' to draw his emotions from the depths of his conscious being. I could even do it myself if I wanted to, but I don't I believe emotions are an evil thing. And while I was looking into the eyes of the mother, I don't see one hint of sorrow, not once! My mother's eyes were full sorrow and sadness and yes, that's even when she was on the happy pills.

Now Momsurroundedbyboys I have but to ask, DID YOU watch this interview? Regardless if you did, how can you expect me to believe this woman when she defies the very logic of emotions?
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16-01-2013, 02:05 AM
RE: Sandy Hook Conspiracy.
I have to try and stay open minded Nappa. For me people handle emotions differently, wether they laugh or cry I cant see that as a valid arguement to prove it was a set up or anything.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

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16-01-2013, 02:16 AM (This post was last modified: 16-01-2013 02:29 AM by Nappa.)
RE: Sandy Hook Conspiracy.
(16-01-2013 02:05 AM)bemore Wrote:  I have to try and stay open minded Nappa. For me people handle emotions differently, whether they laugh or cry I cant see that as a valid argument to prove it was a set up or anything.
Would you believe someone if they were laughing or smiling while they were talking about how their father died? It's not say how they handle their emotions, it's the proper responses that an emotion has. If you love someone and they die, you are not going to be so overly joyful about it as what is in that video.

Now I was already open minded during this entire thing, I already credited a possibility of anti-depression/happy pills. But as I've already witnessed how they work, I can already say that I really can't believe it would be caused by that. One because her eyes don't have a very glazed look. They have a very 'stupid' look but that is sadly a common look for most of the people I've met. The stupid look is also irrelevant. Just because her eyes tell that she's a stupid person, has nothing to do with the conspiracy.

Also NONE of you ever credited the possibility of anti-depression/happy pills. Not even you bemore. You said that 'people handle emotions differently' true. Smart people tend to be more rational than stupid people, even when they're emotional. But the emotions you allow will always have the same counter emotion. Always a person who LOVES his wife who walks in on her banging some random (and often unfortunate) guy she met somewhere doesn't feel 'confused' or 'shy' and he certainly doesn't feel 'happy' he feels 'hate, rage, anger, sadness, sorrow, betrayal' and that's just the beginning.

Oh by the way, when you have someone who is feeling all those emotions at once, which they often do. You have a pretty irrational person on your hands. Which is why I stay away from such powerful emotions.
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16-01-2013, 02:59 AM
RE: Sandy Hook Conspiracy.
(16-01-2013 02:16 AM)Nappa Wrote:  
(16-01-2013 02:05 AM)bemore Wrote:  I have to try and stay open minded Nappa. For me people handle emotions differently, whether they laugh or cry I cant see that as a valid argument to prove it was a set up or anything.
Would you believe someone if they were laughing or smiling while they were talking about how their father died? It's not say how they handle their emotions, it's the proper responses that an emotion has. If you love someone and they die, you are not going to be so overly joyful about it as what is in that video.

Now I was already open minded during this entire thing, I already credited a possibility of anti-depression/happy pills. But as I've already witnessed how they work, I can already say that I really can't believe it would be caused by that. One because her eyes don't have a very glazed look. They have a very 'stupid' look but that is sadly a common look for most of the people I've met. The stupid look is also irrelevant. Just because her eyes tell that she's a stupid person, has nothing to do with the conspiracy.

Also NONE of you ever credited the possibility of anti-depression/happy pills. Not even you bemore. You said that 'people handle emotions differently' true. Smart people tend to be more rational than stupid people, even when they're emotional. But the emotions you allow will always have the same counter emotion. Always a person who LOVES his wife who walks in on her banging some random (and often unfortunate) guy she met somewhere doesn't feel 'confused' or 'shy' and he certainly doesn't feel 'happy' he feels 'hate, rage, anger, sadness, sorrow, betrayal' and that's just the beginning.

Oh by the way, when you have someone who is feeling all those emotions at once, which they often do. You have a pretty irrational person on your hands. Which is why I stay away from such powerful emotions.
Funny you should mention Pills.... I seem to be looking at a lot of medical things recently.

You might find this video interesting, you can watch the whole thing or skip to 23:00 onwards with reference to medication.




For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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16-01-2013, 03:07 AM (This post was last modified: 16-01-2013 03:43 AM by Nappa.)
RE: Sandy Hook Conspiracy.
(16-01-2013 02:59 AM)bemore Wrote:  
(16-01-2013 02:16 AM)Nappa Wrote:  Would you believe someone if they were laughing or smiling while they were talking about how their father died? It's not say how they handle their emotions, it's the proper responses that an emotion has. If you love someone and they die, you are not going to be so overly joyful about it as what is in that video.

Now I was already open minded during this entire thing, I already credited a possibility of anti-depression/happy pills. But as I've already witnessed how they work, I can already say that I really can't believe it would be caused by that. One because her eyes don't have a very glazed look. They have a very 'stupid' look but that is sadly a common look for most of the people I've met. The stupid look is also irrelevant. Just because her eyes tell that she's a stupid person, has nothing to do with the conspiracy.

Also NONE of you ever credited the possibility of anti-depression/happy pills. Not even you bemore. You said that 'people handle emotions differently' true. Smart people tend to be more rational than stupid people, even when they're emotional. But the emotions you allow will always have the same counter emotion. Always a person who LOVES his wife who walks in on her banging some random (and often unfortunate) guy she met somewhere doesn't feel 'confused' or 'shy' and he certainly doesn't feel 'happy' he feels 'hate, rage, anger, sadness, sorrow, betrayal' and that's just the beginning.

Oh by the way, when you have someone who is feeling all those emotions at once, which they often do. You have a pretty irrational person on your hands. Which is why I stay away from such powerful emotions.
Funny you should mention Pills.... I seem to be looking at a lot of medical things recently.

You might find this video interesting, you can watch the whole thing or skip to 23:00 onwards with reference to medication.



Yeah not really gonna lie to you, I'm currently trying to motivate myself to buy some books on Eastern history and by Eastern history I mean Chinese, Korean, and Japanese history. Which currently right now I don't give a fuck about. So I'm going to go watch some movies, and try to motivate myself that way. I did watch a minute of your video though, and it failed to hold my interest.

And bam, just like that after 8 minutes of watching a good japanese movie (that's not a western influenced one) I am resolved to learn about eastern history.
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16-01-2013, 03:52 AM
RE: Sandy Hook Conspiracy.




This has got to be my favorite song by far though. I did play shogun 2 for a bit, and while it was truly amazing it lacked the administrative experiences I loved in medieval war II and rome total war.
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16-01-2013, 01:45 PM
RE: Sandy Hook Conspiracy.
So reddit user preggit of the Skeptic subreddit took the time to lay out, theory by theory, some reasons why the Alex Jones video is full of shit. In my opinion it is debunked- not that it will change the mind of a person dead set in their faith in theories such as this... But anyway, here is URL to the thread and a copy of the content of the post:
Quote:http://www.reddit.com/r/skeptic/comments...ng/c7xjgzr

Since no one has really taken the time to debunk this here you go:

First off I want to note - the main contributor of information in this video and around this conspiracy is Alex Jones. He is, in my opinion, a paranoid nutjob, as was pretty evident by his [1] CNN interview
- seriously skip to 3 minutes in and tell me this guy is sane. (My intent here is not ad hominem, just wanted to give some context as to the presenters of these "facts" and their origins) Now that that's out of the way let's look at the content of the video...

Theory 1: The first thing the video tries to allege is that there is a second shooter. They love to grab early media footageand then use that as "evidence" of their claims, as if the media's first reporting is somehow golden. Odd that conspiracy theorists distrust the media, then turn around and use its raw reporting claims asevidence. Anyway, you can easily google and figure out who the guy in the woods
was.

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl...6C2YmOLWnM

He is the father of a student there and the athletic director at the highschool. He was on his way to the school to help make gingerbread houses with 1st graders when he heard the shots. He was unarmed, arrested, detained, questioned, and let go. The story of the guy in the woods was a dead end, so the media dropped it. That is the problem with the 24 hour news cycle, they will report any lead they get before sorting out facts. However, this is hardly evidence of a conspiracy.

The video even makes the ridiculous claim that since the guy was sitting in the FRONT of the police car, that he must have some "crazy" credentials. Yeah, what is more likely...that this guy was a concerned father or that he was a man with some "crazy" credentials on a black ops mission to shoot up a school but he just didn't have the skills to properly vacate, and so he ended up getting himself captured by lowly local law enforcement, AND broadcast on national tv, potentially exposing his super secret black op? C'mon.

Theory 2: The gun discrepancy. This can be chalked up to contradictory reporting, which is going to happen when the media competes with itself to be the first one to break any new details. There have already been articles clearing up the discrepancies. Basically, there was no assault rifle used. Handguns were used in the school and a shotgun was found in the car:

[3] http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/340113

[4] http://www.ijreview.com/2013/01/30208-nb...-shooting/

Theory 3: The nurse is fake and does not exist. This is completely false, and has been debunked with evidence: [5] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r61PvN4U3x0

Theory 4: The laughing/crying father. This means absolutely nothing. No one can judge how a father copes with the loss of his daughter, and it's offensive that people are criticizing him for it. I have been to several funerals, I have witnessed family members and friends switch in and out of laughter and tears. They think of fond memories of the one they lost, they tell stories, they laugh, and they
cry. People grieve in different ways. To me it does not seem right to criticize his reaction here, and it's not evidence of a conspiracy.

Theory 5: Emillie Parker is not dead. This is the most absurd thing I have seen so far in the video. The video alleges not only that the girl is not dead, but that the parents were so stupid they brought out the wrong sister for the photo op. What? Do people honestly believe that?
[6] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTaC580hfPo
It's a picture of her sister. Obviously. They look alike because, you know, they're sister's. This guy uses the same photoshop trick as the conspiracy video and gets the same effect. Check out their noses in this picture for further evidence: [7] http://i.imgur.com/iSuf4.jpg

Theory 6: One piece of footage of the crime scene does not show many ambulances and shows no children. The author claims this means this was all staged. He goes on to say that only one ambulance was there the whole time and they quickly blocked off all exits. The problem with this is twofold. Firstly, there are several pictures of multiple ambulances (here are a few):

[8] http://imgur.com/hb6kZ,XGWSd#1

[9] http://www.politico.com/story/2012/12/co...85094.html

Secondly, this footage that the videos author is commenting on looks to be taken well after the shooting took place, which easily explains why there aren't a bunch of ambulances around and no one is panicking anymore. [10] A fellow redditor describes here that based on the position of the sun in the sky, this video was shot well in the afternoon, 6-7 hours after the shooting took place. More things taken out of context because they fit the authors narrative.

Theory 7: Time stamps on the webpage set up for donations state the page was created before the shootings took place. Google search results do not always accurately reflect the date the content was published. Example) [11] Here is a date restrictive search of sandy hook, listing all articles that appear to be published before the shooting took place. Well shit, according to google this there are articles and videos from these dates talking about the shooting: Jan 14, 2012 , Jun 19, 2012 , Sept 16, 2012 ..well before the shooting took place. Debunked.

Addition: People keep bringing up the facebook page that was made prior to the shooting. The creator of the page said they had made an unrelated page previously, it had no fans in it. After the shootings took place, she renamed the page to be a memorial for one of the victims. This changed the URL, but kept the original creation date of the group. Many claim this is not possible or this is not how facebook
works. Here is proof that it is: [12] http://imgur.com/a/U6wWH

Theory 8: There was a planned FEMA meeting scheduled 20 minutes from the time of the shooting which helped slow down the response time of first responders.(Added due to popular demand). I
went to the [15] emergency services website for CT to investigate this. This class is offered regularly. It was offered on 11/17, 11/27, 12/3, 12/6, 12/14, and 12/17

In fact, digging a little deeper you can see they have had training classes like these for a long time, such as this one way back on 4/2/2012 called Emergency Planning for Schools (2 day course):

[16] http://www.ct.gov/demhs/ical/eventDetail...CE83CDCACA

These tragedies have been happening for awhile, and so has training people to respond to them. Debunked.


Other stuff: The people that made this video clearly have their own agenda, which is why they keep bringing up 9/11 and the London bombings (two completely unrelated events). Any time a large, tragic event occurs, many of these conspiracy theorists do their best to gather all of the media reports, then pick and choose to take the media out of context and create their own crazy conspiracy driven narrative for the events that took place. If you are skeptical of this video, you should be. It's crap.
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16-01-2013, 03:13 PM
RE: Sandy Hook Conspiracy.
(16-01-2013 01:45 PM)kineo Wrote:  So reddit user preggit of the Skeptic subreddit took the time to lay out, theory by theory, some reasons why the Alex Jones video is full of shit. In my opinion it is debunked- not that it will change the mind of a person dead set in their faith in theories such as this... But anyway, here is URL to the thread and a copy of the content of the post:
Quote:http://www.reddit.com/r/skeptic/comments...ng/c7xjgzr

Since no one has really taken the time to debunk this here you go:

First off I want to note - the main contributor of information in this video and around this conspiracy is Alex Jones. He is, in my opinion, a paranoid nutjob, as was pretty evident by his [1] CNN interview
- seriously skip to 3 minutes in and tell me this guy is sane. (My intent here is not ad hominem, just wanted to give some context as to the presenters of these "facts" and their origins) Now that that's out of the way let's look at the content of the video...

Theory 1: The first thing the video tries to allege is that there is a second shooter. They love to grab early media footageand then use that as "evidence" of their claims, as if the media's first reporting is somehow golden. Odd that conspiracy theorists distrust the media, then turn around and use its raw reporting claims asevidence. Anyway, you can easily google and figure out who the guy in the woods
was.

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl...6C2YmOLWnM

He is the father of a student there and the athletic director at the highschool. He was on his way to the school to help make gingerbread houses with 1st graders when he heard the shots. He was unarmed, arrested, detained, questioned, and let go. The story of the guy in the woods was a dead end, so the media dropped it. That is the problem with the 24 hour news cycle, they will report any lead they get before sorting out facts. However, this is hardly evidence of a conspiracy.

The video even makes the ridiculous claim that since the guy was sitting in the FRONT of the police car, that he must have some "crazy" credentials. Yeah, what is more likely...that this guy was a concerned father or that he was a man with some "crazy" credentials on a black ops mission to shoot up a school but he just didn't have the skills to properly vacate, and so he ended up getting himself captured by lowly local law enforcement, AND broadcast on national tv, potentially exposing his super secret black op? C'mon.

Theory 2: The gun discrepancy. This can be chalked up to contradictory reporting, which is going to happen when the media competes with itself to be the first one to break any new details. There have already been articles clearing up the discrepancies. Basically, there was no assault rifle used. Handguns were used in the school and a shotgun was found in the car:

[3] http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/340113

[4] http://www.ijreview.com/2013/01/30208-nb...-shooting/

Theory 3: The nurse is fake and does not exist. This is completely false, and has been debunked with evidence: [5] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r61PvN4U3x0

Theory 4: The laughing/crying father. This means absolutely nothing. No one can judge how a father copes with the loss of his daughter, and it's offensive that people are criticizing him for it. I have been to several funerals, I have witnessed family members and friends switch in and out of laughter and tears. They think of fond memories of the one they lost, they tell stories, they laugh, and they
cry. People grieve in different ways. To me it does not seem right to criticize his reaction here, and it's not evidence of a conspiracy.

Theory 5: Emillie Parker is not dead. This is the most absurd thing I have seen so far in the video. The video alleges not only that the girl is not dead, but that the parents were so stupid they brought out the wrong sister for the photo op. What? Do people honestly believe that?
[6] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTaC580hfPo
It's a picture of her sister. Obviously. They look alike because, you know, they're sister's. This guy uses the same photoshop trick as the conspiracy video and gets the same effect. Check out their noses in this picture for further evidence: [7] http://i.imgur.com/iSuf4.jpg

Theory 6: One piece of footage of the crime scene does not show many ambulances and shows no children. The author claims this means this was all staged. He goes on to say that only one ambulance was there the whole time and they quickly blocked off all exits. The problem with this is twofold. Firstly, there are several pictures of multiple ambulances (here are a few):

[8] http://imgur.com/hb6kZ,XGWSd#1

[9] http://www.politico.com/story/2012/12/co...85094.html

Secondly, this footage that the videos author is commenting on looks to be taken well after the shooting took place, which easily explains why there aren't a bunch of ambulances around and no one is panicking anymore. [10] A fellow redditor describes here that based on the position of the sun in the sky, this video was shot well in the afternoon, 6-7 hours after the shooting took place. More things taken out of context because they fit the authors narrative.

Theory 7: Time stamps on the webpage set up for donations state the page was created before the shootings took place. Google search results do not always accurately reflect the date the content was published. Example) [11] Here is a date restrictive search of sandy hook, listing all articles that appear to be published before the shooting took place. Well shit, according to google this there are articles and videos from these dates talking about the shooting: Jan 14, 2012 , Jun 19, 2012 , Sept 16, 2012 ..well before the shooting took place. Debunked.

Addition: People keep bringing up the facebook page that was made prior to the shooting. The creator of the page said they had made an unrelated page previously, it had no fans in it. After the shootings took place, she renamed the page to be a memorial for one of the victims. This changed the URL, but kept the original creation date of the group. Many claim this is not possible or this is not how facebook
works. Here is proof that it is: [12] http://imgur.com/a/U6wWH

Theory 8: There was a planned FEMA meeting scheduled 20 minutes from the time of the shooting which helped slow down the response time of first responders.(Added due to popular demand). I
went to the [15] emergency services website for CT to investigate this. This class is offered regularly. It was offered on 11/17, 11/27, 12/3, 12/6, 12/14, and 12/17

In fact, digging a little deeper you can see they have had training classes like these for a long time, such as this one way back on 4/2/2012 called Emergency Planning for Schools (2 day course):

[16] http://www.ct.gov/demhs/ical/eventDetail...CE83CDCACA

These tragedies have been happening for awhile, and so has training people to respond to them. Debunked.


Other stuff: The people that made this video clearly have their own agenda, which is why they keep bringing up 9/11 and the London bombings (two completely unrelated events). Any time a large, tragic event occurs, many of these conspiracy theorists do their best to gather all of the media reports, then pick and choose to take the media out of context and create their own crazy conspiracy driven narrative for the events that took place. If you are skeptical of this video, you should be. It's crap.
Nice find Kineo Thumbsup

Im off to share this on some conspiracy sites and have a rant.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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16-01-2013, 03:26 PM
RE: Sandy Hook Conspiracy.
Here's something else to add to the pile- a piece from Anderson Cooper, in which he specifically addresses the allegation that the couple he interviewed were "too happy".



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16-01-2013, 05:02 PM
RE: Sandy Hook Conspiracy.
But wait, there's more!

(16-01-2013 01:04 AM)Nappa Wrote:  And don't even get me started about the old man who had 6 children on his lawn, that guy is an obvious liar, we have contradicting stories that he himself says on camera. Not to mention, the fact that he didn't call the police after the children told him that their teacher had been shot. You would think a responsible member of society would contact some form of law enforcement so that they could contact the parents so they or the parents could take custody of them.

Plus he says he was on his way to work? Most people his age that I know of are retired. Except my grandmother, she was a teacher for quite some time. I wonder if you people even know how to observe another human being and their emotional responses, I anticipate your hate when I say something that you don't agree with. Why? Because that's natural for a human to do, they'll hate whatever they don't agree with. Especially when it's controversial like conspiracy theories, or politics, or some minor historical events. (be advised I consider most of human history to be of the minor part)

Here's how I observe people I look into their eyes. The old man closes his eyes at least half the time he's talking, the only time I close my eyes when I'm talking is when I'm trying to imagine things. Just like when momsurroundedbyboys said that the guy was 'gaining composure' yeah he was gaining composure alright, he was imagining being there as if it actually happened to 'feel' to draw his emotions from the depths of his conscious being. I could even do it myself if I wanted to, but I don't I believe emotions are an evil thing. And while I was looking into the eyes of the mother, I don't see one hint of sorrow, not once! My mother's eyes were full sorrow and sadness and yes, that's even when she was on the happy pills.

Now Momsurroundedbyboys I have but to ask, DID YOU watch this interview? Regardless if you did, how can you expect me to believe this woman when she defies the very logic of emotions?

Here's a Salon article addressing this man.

http://www.salon.com/2013/01/15/this_man...ed_for_it/

Nappa, your rants are full of assumptions and a half-baked suspicions. Your criticisms of this man are based on your assumptions about people. You assume that he's lying about going to work, because old people should be retired? He is retired (a retired psychologist) and now owns a business. As you're aware from your grandmother, people don't have to retire once they hit retirement age, and when they do, they don't stop living.

Anyway, here's another article on the guy:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/17...17775.html
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