Sat through another church service
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20-04-2015, 09:30 PM
RE: Sat through another church service
(20-04-2015 06:29 PM)Helen_Damnation Wrote:  ...
Then he goes on to name drop Christopher Hitchens and says that "prominent atheist author Christopher Hitchens said that if he were to meet god, he would say he disbelieved because of a lack of evidence".
...

Hitch was quoting Bertrand Russell.

1:06:42





Hitchens' preferred response to Pascal's Wager follows that.

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20-04-2015, 09:44 PM
RE: Sat through another church service
(20-04-2015 08:42 PM)mordant Wrote:  It's your basic argument from incredulity as well as Social Manipulation 101.

I don't understand how a young, educated person like my former pastor could make such a shockingly bad argument.

I know that he has a background in philosophy and Bible history, so I feel like he should be able to, at least, put together something better than that.

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20-04-2015, 11:19 PM
RE: Sat through another church service
Go again, with a prepared slip. When the collection plate is passed around, drop in the slip.

It should read, "Get real".

And the week after that, search out eye contact with him.
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20-04-2015, 11:22 PM
RE: Sat through another church service
This reminds me of the time when we had this program at church when I was around 14, and my grandma came to watch it and when the collection plate went around, she put in a handful of empty envelopes.
(20-04-2015 11:19 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Go again, with a prepared slip. When the collection plate is passed around, drop in the slip.

It should read, "Get real".

And the week after that, search out eye contact with him.
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20-04-2015, 11:26 PM
RE: Sat through another church service
(20-04-2015 09:44 PM)Helen_Damnation Wrote:  
(20-04-2015 08:42 PM)mordant Wrote:  It's your basic argument from incredulity as well as Social Manipulation 101.

I don't understand how a young, educated person like my former pastor could make such a shockingly bad argument.

I know that he has a background in philosophy and Bible history, so I feel like he should be able to, at least, put together something better than that.

That's because you have now eaten from the tree of knowledge. I mean, once you take that red pill, there's no going back and you start to see it for what it really is...

When I was in my early twenties I kept searching for a church where the pastor didn't say something illogical or unethical or intolerant (you wanna preach about how god hates fags, I ain't sitting through your bigoted bullshit) and increasingly became more disgruntled until I stopped going to church except for the occasional Sunday to keep up a facade.

All I hear is fallacy after fallacy and lack of anything really useful with each service I suffer through as well as the attempt at emotional manipulation making you feel bad about yourself for XYZ and then Jesus is the answer. Now I don't even feel bad about myself in church since becoming an atheist - I just struggle to keep from saying "bullshit" and rolling my eyes during the sermon.

"If there's a single thing that life teaches us, it's that wishing doesn't make it so." - Lev Grossman
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21-04-2015, 12:46 AM
RE: Sat through another church service
(20-04-2015 09:44 PM)Helen_Damnation Wrote:  
(20-04-2015 08:42 PM)mordant Wrote:  It's your basic argument from incredulity as well as Social Manipulation 101.

I don't understand how a young, educated person like my former pastor could make such a shockingly bad argument.

I know that he has a background in philosophy and Bible history, so I feel like he should be able to, at least, put together something better than that.

Send him a copy of this : http://www.amazon.com/Trouble-Resurrecti...surrection

by a Christian seminary professor. It's far more complicated than he knows about.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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21-04-2015, 01:10 AM
RE: Sat through another church service
(20-04-2015 06:29 PM)Helen_Damnation Wrote:  So on Sunday I decided to spend some time with my mom, and she likes going to church, so I went with her that morning.

This is my former church that I used to attend regularly, but have stopped doing so for obvious reasons.

Every time I sit through another service as a nonbeliever, I realize how my former pastor always makes direct eye contact with me for long periods of time like he knows that I don't buy it anymore (probably my facial expressions and all that).

Anyway, yesterday he dropped the line that "all who disbelieve are condemned already" and emphasized the "already" part. Then he goes on to name drop Christopher Hitchens and says that "prominent atheist author Christopher Hitchens said that if he were to meet god, he would say he disbelieved because of a lack of evidence".

Then the punchline, "Well, I tell you, the resurrection of Jesus Christ IS the evidence! What more evidence could you need! God is literally screaming out at you and giving you all the evidence you need!"
Shocking

I can't believe that I used to look up to this pastor when I was a teenager. I also can't believe the number of "Amen!"'s that got.

Nothing special I would say. Pastor claiming that damnation awaits the ateists certainly is not inventive. And for the punchline, his don't need better "evidence" than he has. People buys it so why he should strain himself and try to say something that makes sense?
You say that you can't believe. It is exactly why his "evidence" doesen't seem plausible to you. You don't believe, you moved past the indoctrination so to be convinced you need well thought arguments and compelling evidence not saying that Christ was resurected because that is written in somebody's favourite book.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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21-04-2015, 06:19 AM
RE: Sat through another church service
(20-04-2015 06:29 PM)Helen_Damnation Wrote:  Then the punchline, "Well, I tell you, the resurrection of Jesus Christ IS the evidence! What more evidence could you need! God is literally screaming out at you and giving you all the evidence you need!"
Shocking

The funny part???

He's saying that he's got an outrageous story - that PROVES another outrageous story is TRUE!!!

I suppose it can be proved mathematically.

As in ---

BS + BS = BS> - - - - - - - - BS

Bullshit plus bullshit equals bullshit greater than bullshit (all by itself).

Fucking devout assclowns.

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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21-04-2015, 06:39 AM
RE: Sat through another church service
(20-04-2015 09:44 PM)Helen_Damnation Wrote:  
(20-04-2015 08:42 PM)mordant Wrote:  It's your basic argument from incredulity as well as Social Manipulation 101.

I don't understand how a young, educated person like my former pastor could make such a shockingly bad argument.

I know that he has a background in philosophy and Bible history, so I feel like he should be able to, at least, put together something better than that.

Background in philosophy? Damn. Now I'm sure he's doing it for the money and power. My one friend told me that god hates philosophy. I guess god hates anything that undermines him. My friend is one of those black hebrew types.

8000 years before Jesus, the Egyptian god Horus said, "I am the way, the truth, the life."
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21-04-2015, 07:11 AM
RE: Sat through another church service
(20-04-2015 09:44 PM)Helen_Damnation Wrote:  
(20-04-2015 08:42 PM)mordant Wrote:  It's your basic argument from incredulity as well as Social Manipulation 101.

I don't understand how a young, educated person like my former pastor could make such a shockingly bad argument.

I know that he has a background in philosophy and Bible history, so I feel like he should be able to, at least, put together something better than that.

Coming out of fundamentalist Christianity, I never have been able to resolve the question of whether these pastors are in it for the money, ego trip, etc. or are they true believers?
When a person has more knowledge than many others, you can use that knowledge to profit and predate off of lesser-informed people, it's just not possible to tell what their motivations are, but if a person finds themselves in a group that can't distinguish between saint or shyster, maybe it's time to associate with another group.
It's one of the reasons why I have a visceral disgust towards pastors/clergy, I view them as conscious con-men or honest dupes trying to delude other people.

Neither trait is admiral......

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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