Satanism and Ritualism
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18-06-2014, 12:11 AM
RE: Satanism and Ritualism
(17-06-2014 03:39 AM)Mr. Slave Wrote:  
(17-06-2014 03:07 AM)Misanthropik Wrote:  An atheist lacks belief in deities. That's it.

Anyway, as an atheist, I have many rituals. I eat breakfast every morning. I brush my teeth and shave my head every night. I turn on the TV every time I get home from work. I purchase new music from iTunes every payday.

There are lots of rituals in which each of us engage, but I have to ask: what sorts of rituals pertain to satanists specifically? Whenever a satanist mentions "ritual", the first thing I think of is someone wearing a hood and drinking something from a special chalice while the incense sticks smoke gently alongside the Baphomet. If that were the case, it would certainly strike me as unnecessary and silly.

So, what kind of "rituals" are we talking about?

Weeping Yeah, that sort of stuff does occur. I really wish I could say it does not but men like Anton LaVey are examples of it and he was an atheist.
One of the most common Satanic rituals is Black Mass of course, which is a total satire. Where a group of people get together and recite the lord's prayer backwards. I mean literally backwards as in taking an audio recorder and playing a tape backwards.
Another common Satanic ritual is praying to yourself. Satanists believe that the closest thing to god is oneself since all concept of god are useless(igtheism) and are just projections of the self. Satanists often times like making shrines to themselves and worship themselves as literal gods within their own minds. The degree of flattery is debated amongst Satanists still, always starts a flame war.

So yeah, that sort of cooky stuff occurs during Satanic rituals. I like many other Satanist's get accused of mental masturbation and taking self glorification to an extreme but trust me, I am not conceited.

So is this just fucked up or what? I admit, that I am addicted to this sort of stuff but perhaps this comes from my religious background where burning shit up in front of 3 golden idols while having crowds of people recite a mantra while the other half sings a bhajan.

Personally, I'm into Satanism more as an aesthetic rather than an actual philosophy. I identify with many of the philosophies of Satanism, but I don't really see a point in labeling myself as a satanist. I'm just me. I do what I do.

With that said, I don't really see much of a point in engaging in the rituals described. Please don't misunderstand me; I'm all about satire and having fun and playing dress-up and all that fun stuff…but when I'm alone, it doesn't matter if I've got inverted pentagrams and satanic mantras tattooed on me; I'm not gonna pray to myself. The only time I've done anything even remotely "satanic" and "ritualistic" is when it's for the ironic amusement of those around me who know that I'm just having a laugh. (Drinking from my goat's head/pentagram wine chalice on my birthday is a fine example)

Your original question about Atheism aside (we've already addressed that), I guess I'm just curious as to why any of that would be of interest. You mentioned it might be because of your religious background (which happens to be why I'm interested in Satanism in the first place), but is there a more detailed explanation?

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18-06-2014, 12:26 AM (This post was last modified: 18-06-2014 12:29 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Satanism and Ritualism
(18-06-2014 12:11 AM)Misanthropik Wrote:  I'm not gonna pray to myself.

Who you gonna pray to if not yourself? That's who Girly prays to. Being my own personal Jesus and whatnot and shit. Tongue

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18-06-2014, 01:04 AM
RE: Satanism and Ritualism
(18-06-2014 12:26 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(18-06-2014 12:11 AM)Misanthropik Wrote:  I'm not gonna pray to myself.

Who you gonna pray to if not yourself? That's who Girly prays to. Being my own personal Jesus and whatnot and shit. Tongue

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18-06-2014, 01:07 AM
RE: Satanism and Ritualism
(17-06-2014 10:00 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(17-06-2014 11:38 AM)Mr. Slave Wrote:  Yeah this is a big issue in the Satanic community which is why people like LaVey made Satanism unaffiliated to Christianity. Satanism is not "reverse Christianity" and being a former Muslim I would prefer it to be reverse Islam but that is just my mind wandering.
I am a Luciferian Satanist for example and many people in my sect do wish to make Luciferianism depart from Satanism some how which is flat out ridiculous. LaVey's current bunch of screw heads are not exactly the brightest of the bunch and instead are constantly high and depressed. I do not even associate with them anymore. Which is why I just hang out with fellow atheists and began taking part in this forum.

Laveyan Satanists are just Christian mockery. Drug induced, worthless, white boy teenagers wanting to get laid. Sums of Laveyan Satanism fairly good.

You didn't address the point. Nor did you demonstrate how your satanism, luciferianism, whatthefuckever, is "not reverse xtianity". How could it not be when its main character and namesake is lifted right out of xtian myths.

Make sense.

Did the myth of Prometheus exist before Christianity? Do a bit of research so when you come back and respond I can laugh Rolleyes

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18-06-2014, 01:16 AM
RE: Satanism and Ritualism
(18-06-2014 12:11 AM)Misanthropik Wrote:  Personally, I'm into Satanism more as an aesthetic rather than an actual philosophy. I identify with many of the philosophies of Satanism, but I don't really see a point in labeling myself as a satanist. I'm just me. I do what I do.

I do not really label myself a Satanist unless in the right environment. If I believe I can create fitnah(chaos) like when I am around Mormons or Muslims I will come out as a Satanist.
Being a Satanist is no more different than being a Humanist. It is a philosophical title not a religious label.

Quote:With that said, I don't really see much of a point in engaging in the rituals described. Please don't misunderstand me; I'm all about satire and having fun and playing dress-up and all that fun stuff…but when I'm alone, it doesn't matter if I've got inverted pentagrams and satanic mantras tattooed on me; I'm not gonna pray to myself. The only time I've done anything even remotely "satanic" and "ritualistic" is when it's for the ironic amusement of those around me who know that I'm just having a laugh. (Drinking from my goat's head/pentagram wine chalice on my birthday is a fine example)

I think this is because of my experiences with religion. I love religion and I enjoy it greatly, I just hate it when people make fiction reality. I am not offended by religion in the slightest bit or anything affiliated with religion.
I love ritual and have no issues partaking in Hindu rituals at my local mandir. The idea of a god is nice and all but science has refuted the vast majority of claims about god and philosophy has chipped away at every argument. I still find the ritualism and religions organizations to be perfectly fine though.

Oh yes, pentagram chalices are so yesteryear

Quote:Your original question about Atheism aside (we've already addressed that), I guess I'm just curious as to why any of that would be of interest. You mentioned it might be because of your religious background (which happens to be why I'm interested in Satanism in the first place), but is there a more detailed explanation?

Well I had a LOT of experiences with religions in the past. I was born into a Christian family converted to Islam, became a Hindu while studying paganism and gave up Hinduism in favor of Deism and then became an Atheist. Yeah, my life has been fun Big Grin.
The religion I loved the most was Islam because of my fascination with everything Arabic so the idea of understanding Islam and opposing it has been very strong and removing the Christian influences from it is rewarding intellectually.
I am very well versed Arabic philosophy and jurisprudence(fiqh and Islami Qanun) and I just want to take these things and incorporate them into something useful. Satanism and specifically Luciferian Satanism has always been a good platform. Atheism is simply a position on things and has no substance to it.

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18-06-2014, 02:35 AM
RE: Satanism and Ritualism
(18-06-2014 01:16 AM)Mr. Slave Wrote:  
(18-06-2014 12:11 AM)Misanthropik Wrote:  Personally, I'm into Satanism more as an aesthetic rather than an actual philosophy. I identify with many of the philosophies of Satanism, but I don't really see a point in labeling myself as a satanist. I'm just me. I do what I do.

I do not really label myself a Satanist unless in the right environment. If I believe I can create fitnah(chaos) like when I am around Mormons or Muslims I will come out as a Satanist.
Being a Satanist is no more different than being a Humanist. It is a philosophical title not a religious label.

Quote:With that said, I don't really see much of a point in engaging in the rituals described. Please don't misunderstand me; I'm all about satire and having fun and playing dress-up and all that fun stuff…but when I'm alone, it doesn't matter if I've got inverted pentagrams and satanic mantras tattooed on me; I'm not gonna pray to myself. The only time I've done anything even remotely "satanic" and "ritualistic" is when it's for the ironic amusement of those around me who know that I'm just having a laugh. (Drinking from my goat's head/pentagram wine chalice on my birthday is a fine example)

I think this is because of my experiences with religion. I love religion and I enjoy it greatly, I just hate it when people make fiction reality. I am not offended by religion in the slightest bit or anything affiliated with religion.
I love ritual and have no issues partaking in Hindu rituals at my local mandir. The idea of a god is nice and all but science has refuted the vast majority of claims about god and philosophy has chipped away at every argument. I still find the ritualism and religions organizations to be perfectly fine though.

Oh yes, pentagram chalices are so yesteryear

Quote:Your original question about Atheism aside (we've already addressed that), I guess I'm just curious as to why any of that would be of interest. You mentioned it might be because of your religious background (which happens to be why I'm interested in Satanism in the first place), but is there a more detailed explanation?

Well I had a LOT of experiences with religions in the past. I was born into a Christian family converted to Islam, became a Hindu while studying paganism and gave up Hinduism in favor of Deism and then became an Atheist. Yeah, my life has been fun Big Grin.
The religion I loved the most was Islam because of my fascination with everything Arabic so the idea of understanding Islam and opposing it has been very strong and removing the Christian influences from it is rewarding intellectually.
I am very well versed Arabic philosophy and jurisprudence(fiqh and Islami Qanun) and I just want to take these things and incorporate them into something useful. Satanism and specifically Luciferian Satanism has always been a good platform. Atheism is simply a position on things and has no substance to it.

…I still love my chalice. Dodgy

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18-06-2014, 05:57 AM
RE: Satanism and Ritualism
(17-06-2014 11:27 AM)Mr. Slave Wrote:  Are you familiar with Albert Camus and Nietzsche?

I am. However, I'm not familiar at all with how their philosophy could be linked to Satan.

(17-06-2014 11:27 AM)Mr. Slave Wrote:  Ritual is ritual. It is purely enjoyment. One of the major rules of Satanism is hedonism. I am a Luciferianism Satanism so intellectual hedonism is more important.
What would you expect ritual to be for? Conjuring demons? That sort of stuff is just in the movies and Pat Robinson's rants.

If we are talking about religious rituals, it's not technically supposed to be purely enjoyment. Religious rituals have a cause. If you're just having fun, I don't think the word "ritual" is the one you should be using.

If hedonism is important, why not just call yourself a hedonist instead?

(18-06-2014 01:07 AM)Mr. Slave Wrote:  
(17-06-2014 10:00 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  You didn't address the point. Nor did you demonstrate how your satanism, luciferianism, whatthefuckever, is "not reverse xtianity". How could it not be when its main character and namesake is lifted right out of xtian myths.

Make sense.

Did the myth of Prometheus exist before Christianity? Do a bit of research so when you come back and respond I can laugh Rolleyes

I can't see why Satan is relevant to this philosophy in any way either. Satan is strictly linked to the Abrahamic religions and to a specific idea of evil.

Prometheus and Satan hardly have anything in common.
Prometheus is not evil. He stood on the side of humans and went against a god who wanted to punish humans because of his ego.
The traditional, original Satan is evil, he doesn't care about humans and he only wants to deceive and lead them to sin.

I still don't see anything admirable in Satan (while I do in Prometheus) and I still don't understand how the use of the word is irrelevant to Christianity. If that is what you are implying.

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18-06-2014, 06:09 AM
RE: Satanism and Ritualism
(18-06-2014 05:57 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  The traditional, original Satan is evil, he doesn't care about humans and he only wants to deceive and lead them to sin.

We that is arguable; I'm far from in the know about this, so I dare not make statements of any veracity, but I recall many Christians tending toward proclaiming the serpent that convinced Adam and Even to partake of the fruit of knowledge was Satan.
Were this the case, than arguably Satan was the most honest and human-friendly creature between itself and god as it told them the truth that they would not die as god promised and at the same time gave humanity the greatest gift of all, knowledge.

And I was wondering why he mentioned Prometheus... If I remember right, he stole fire from the gods and gave it to humanity. Not much typical Satan there..

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18-06-2014, 06:42 AM
RE: Satanism and Ritualism
(18-06-2014 06:09 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(18-06-2014 05:57 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  The traditional, original Satan is evil, he doesn't care about humans and he only wants to deceive and lead them to sin.

We that is arguable; I'm far from in the know about this, so I dare not make statements of any veracity, but I recall many Christians tending toward proclaiming the serpent that convinced Adam and Even to partake of the fruit of knowledge was Satan.
Were this the case, than arguably Satan was the most honest and human-friendly creature between itself and god as it told them the truth that they would not die as god promised and at the same time gave humanity the greatest gift of all, knowledge.

I believe it depends on Satan's actual interests.
Did he do it because he cared about Adam and Eve and he wanted them to know or did he do it because he wanted to tempt them and fill them with sin and see them go down and lose eternal life?

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18-06-2014, 07:22 AM
RE: Satanism and Ritualism
(18-06-2014 06:42 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  
(18-06-2014 06:09 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  We that is arguable; I'm far from in the know about this, so I dare not make statements of any veracity, but I recall many Christians tending toward proclaiming the serpent that convinced Adam and Even to partake of the fruit of knowledge was Satan.
Were this the case, than arguably Satan was the most honest and human-friendly creature between itself and god as it told them the truth that they would not die as god promised and at the same time gave humanity the greatest gift of all, knowledge.

I believe it depends on Satan's actual interests.
Did he do it because he cared about Adam and Eve and he wanted them to know or did he do it because he wanted to tempt them and fill them with sin and see them go down and lose eternal life?

But can we really speculate on Satan's interests in this instance with any semblance of accuracy?
Unless by interests, you mean what he stood to gain from it's little escapade, which to me seems like nothing; unless Satan is as short-sighted as Yahweh appears to (somehow) be, than he must know turning Adam and Eve to 'sin' is a pointless gesture as while it'd get god's favourite pets out of the Garden, he still hasn't really won himself a battle, nor any resources for future use; the best he has done is really be a minor nuisance to his nemesis who still holds the power... supposedly.

Plus, unless I remember wrong, sin didn't exist prior to the eating of the knowledge fruit anyway, so how could Satan's objective or gain be turning Adam and Eve to sin?

I'm not saying that the Serpent/Satan acted purely out of kinship or goodwill to the two naive humans, but it did do some good, at least compared to Yahweh in not lying and ultimately giving humanity knowledge. But with the information I have right now, I've no indication that the Serpent/Satan acted in a malicious way in this instance...

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