Satanism and Ritualism
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18-06-2014, 07:46 AM
RE: Satanism and Ritualism
(18-06-2014 07:22 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  But can we really speculate on Satan's interests in this instance with any semblance of accuracy?
Unless by interests, you mean what he stood to gain from it's little escapade, which to me seems like nothing; unless Satan is as short-sighted as Yahweh appears to (somehow) be, than he must know turning Adam and Eve to 'sin' is a pointless gesture as while it'd get god's favourite pets out of the Garden, he still hasn't really won himself a battle, nor any resources for future use; the best he has done is really be a minor nuisance to his nemesis who still holds the power... supposedly.

Plus, unless I remember wrong, sin didn't exist prior to the eating of the knowledge fruit anyway, so how could Satan's objective or gain be turning Adam and Eve to sin?

I'm not saying that the Serpent/Satan acted purely out of kinship or goodwill to the two naive humans, but it did do some good, at least compared to Yahweh in not lying and ultimately giving humanity knowledge. But with the information I have right now, I've no indication that the Serpent/Satan acted in a malicious way in this instance...

The thing is, the biblical Satan (who happens to be the only Satan) has done nothing more in the Bible than "annoy" God and turn people to a sinful life anyway.

Since he is the only Satan, the only source of information is the Bible, and more specifically the New Testament. His motives and character are clearly described there.

It doesn't matter if an atheist sees him as a helping figure, the only ones who perfectly knew who and what Satan was were the writers of the New Testament, and they say he is evil.

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18-06-2014, 07:48 AM (This post was last modified: 18-06-2014 07:54 AM by Im_Ryan.)
RE: Satanism and Ritualism
(17-06-2014 09:25 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(17-06-2014 07:54 AM)Im_Ryan Wrote:  Like Pastafarianism. I toyed around with LaVeyan Satanism in high school Blush
Mostly to fuck with people.

Though, I didn't know anyone actually believed in the devil. From my understanding it was just ritual to either fuck with people or just because it relaxed you (like a form of meditation).

The big problem I see is that, as a polar-opposite reaction to xtian batshittery, it's slave to xtian batshittery, and just equal-opposite batshittery..

It's like they believe in xtian tenets and rituals more than xtians do. And they seem to play into xtian assumptions hook, line and sinker, and aid xtians in their "good/evil" dichotomy bullshit delusions by providing the role of "Evil" in their little morality play. They give xtians a living, breathing Bogeyman to point to, where before they only had a straw man.

To me, it's like someone jumping up and down and shouting, "No, the Emperor is dressed in rags!"

Well, apparently there are Satanists that do believe the tenets (I didn't know any and still don't), and I can't speak for them. Though the Satanists I knew were just fed up with religion. It was like an anti religion. I didn't do any of the rituals because I was too lazy, but I did make some shit up to mess with people. Good times.

One of my friends really did get into the rituals and stuff, I believe he later became a Wiccan. Really cool guy, little weird, but if you talked to him he was an awesome person. He told me the rituals were his meditation, like yoga or Buddhism or some shit. Either way, he's not hurting anyone so who cares?

Xtians will always be cowerig in fear whether you give them something or not. You can't chase shadows, but you can talk to people. I'd rather talk to a boogeyman than imagine him.

Edit:
(17-06-2014 11:38 AM)Mr. Slave Wrote:  Laveyan Satanists are just Christian mockery. Drug induced, worthless, white boy teenagers wanting to get laid. Sums of Laveyan Satanism fairly good.

That about sums up high school for me Laugh out load

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18-06-2014, 07:54 AM
RE: Satanism and Ritualism
(18-06-2014 07:46 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  
(18-06-2014 07:22 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  But can we really speculate on Satan's interests in this instance with any semblance of accuracy?
Unless by interests, you mean what he stood to gain from it's little escapade, which to me seems like nothing; unless Satan is as short-sighted as Yahweh appears to (somehow) be, than he must know turning Adam and Eve to 'sin' is a pointless gesture as while it'd get god's favourite pets out of the Garden, he still hasn't really won himself a battle, nor any resources for future use; the best he has done is really be a minor nuisance to his nemesis who still holds the power... supposedly.

Plus, unless I remember wrong, sin didn't exist prior to the eating of the knowledge fruit anyway, so how could Satan's objective or gain be turning Adam and Eve to sin?

I'm not saying that the Serpent/Satan acted purely out of kinship or goodwill to the two naive humans, but it did do some good, at least compared to Yahweh in not lying and ultimately giving humanity knowledge. But with the information I have right now, I've no indication that the Serpent/Satan acted in a malicious way in this instance...

The thing is, the biblical Satan (who happens to be the only Satan) has done nothing more in the Bible than "annoy" God and turn people to a sinful life anyway.

Since he is the only Satan, the only source of information is the Bible, and more specifically the New Testament. His motives and character are clearly described there.

It doesn't matter if an atheist sees him as a helping figure, the only ones who perfectly knew who and what Satan was were the writers of the New Testament, and they say he is evil.

Well I was focusing on one instance prior to the NT, where the motives are really not so clear....
And given that the writers of the NT contradict themselves and each other quite often about pretty much everything, I highly doubt that even one of them would have had a solid understanding of Satan's character and role, I mean, they couldn't even get the main protagonist right!

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18-06-2014, 08:11 AM
RE: Satanism and Ritualism
How can you be an atheist if you believe in the existence of Satan? Doesn't that require a belief in god? Huh

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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18-06-2014, 08:22 AM
RE: Satanism and Ritualism
(18-06-2014 07:54 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  Well I was focusing on one instance prior to the NT, where the motives are really not so clear....
And given that the writers of the NT contradict themselves and each other quite often about pretty much everything, I highly doubt that even one of them would have had a solid understanding of Satan's character and role, I mean, they couldn't even get the main protagonist right!

Well, if you go deep into Bible interpretations, you won't even know if Satan exists or not. And if you just read it as it is, Satan is still evil Tongue

In any case, what I'm saying is that by attributing characteristics to Satan that have no basis on the Bible, you're not even doing a better job than Christian apologetics.

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18-06-2014, 08:36 AM
RE: Satanism and Ritualism
(18-06-2014 01:07 AM)Mr. Slave Wrote:  
(17-06-2014 10:00 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  You didn't address the point. Nor did you demonstrate how your satanism, luciferianism, whatthefuckever, is "not reverse xtianity". How could it not be when its main character and namesake is lifted right out of xtian myths.

Make sense.

Did the myth of Prometheus exist before Christianity? Do a bit of research so when you come back and respond I can laugh Rolleyes

What relevance are you claiming the question has to the discussion?

Because potato.

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18-06-2014, 08:39 AM
RE: Satanism and Ritualism
(18-06-2014 08:22 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  
(18-06-2014 07:54 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  Well I was focusing on one instance prior to the NT, where the motives are really not so clear....
And given that the writers of the NT contradict themselves and each other quite often about pretty much everything, I highly doubt that even one of them would have had a solid understanding of Satan's character and role, I mean, they couldn't even get the main protagonist right!

Well, if you go deep into Bible interpretations, you won't even know if Satan exists or not. And if you just read it as it is, Satan is still evil Tongue

In any case, what I'm saying is that by attributing characteristics to Satan that have no basis on the Bible, you're not even doing a better job than Christian apologetics.

Screw interpretations; I'm not a gymnast. I takes them words as I sees 'em.

I'm just sayin' I don't think we can properly gauge the motives of Serpent/Satan accurately, and that it's acts seem more human-friendly than those of Yahweh, at least that point in the story.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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18-06-2014, 08:42 AM
RE: Satanism and Ritualism
(18-06-2014 01:16 AM)Mr. Slave Wrote:  
(18-06-2014 12:11 AM)Misanthropik Wrote:  Personally, I'm into Satanism more as an aesthetic rather than an actual philosophy. I identify with many of the philosophies of Satanism, but I don't really see a point in labeling myself as a satanist. I'm just me. I do what I do.

I do not really label myself a Satanist unless in the right environment. If I believe I can create fitnah(chaos) like when I am around Mormons or Muslims I will come out as a Satanist.
Being a Satanist is no more different than being a Humanist. It is a philosophical title not a religious label.

Quote:With that said, I don't really see much of a point in engaging in the rituals described. Please don't misunderstand me; I'm all about satire and having fun and playing dress-up and all that fun stuff…but when I'm alone, it doesn't matter if I've got inverted pentagrams and satanic mantras tattooed on me; I'm not gonna pray to myself. The only time I've done anything even remotely "satanic" and "ritualistic" is when it's for the ironic amusement of those around me who know that I'm just having a laugh. (Drinking from my goat's head/pentagram wine chalice on my birthday is a fine example)

I think this is because of my experiences with religion. I love religion and I enjoy it greatly, I just hate it when people make fiction reality. I am not offended by religion in the slightest bit or anything affiliated with religion.
I love ritual and have no issues partaking in Hindu rituals at my local mandir. The idea of a god is nice and all but science has refuted the vast majority of claims about god and philosophy has chipped away at every argument. I still find the ritualism and religions organizations to be perfectly fine though.

Oh yes, pentagram chalices are so yesteryear

Quote:Your original question about Atheism aside (we've already addressed that), I guess I'm just curious as to why any of that would be of interest. You mentioned it might be because of your religious background (which happens to be why I'm interested in Satanism in the first place), but is there a more detailed explanation?

Well I had a LOT of experiences with religions in the past. I was born into a Christian family converted to Islam, became a Hindu while studying paganism and gave up Hinduism in favor of Deism and then became an Atheist. Yeah, my life has been fun Big Grin.
The religion I loved the most was Islam because of my fascination with everything Arabic so the idea of understanding Islam and opposing it has been very strong and removing the Christian influences from it is rewarding intellectually.
I am very well versed Arabic philosophy and jurisprudence(fiqh and Islami Qanun) and I just want to take these things and incorporate them into something useful. Satanism and specifically Luciferian Satanism has always been a good platform. Atheism is simply a position on things and has no substance to it.

So you are telling us that you are a poseur who likes to flaunt preposterous fantasies for the shock effect it generates on religious people.

Ho-hum.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


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18-06-2014, 08:46 AM
RE: Satanism and Ritualism
(18-06-2014 06:09 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(18-06-2014 05:57 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  The traditional, original Satan is evil, he doesn't care about humans and he only wants to deceive and lead them to sin.

We that is arguable; I'm far from in the know about this, so I dare not make statements of any veracity, but I recall many Christians tending toward proclaiming the serpent that convinced Adam and Even to partake of the fruit of knowledge was Satan.
Were this the case, than arguably Satan was the most honest and human-friendly creature between itself and god as it told them the truth that they would not die as god promised and at the same time gave humanity the greatest gift of all, knowledge.

And I was wondering why he mentioned Prometheus... If I remember right, he stole fire from the gods and gave it to humanity. Not much typical Satan there..

His trying to justify one silly myth by comparing it to another is hardly convincing.

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Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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18-06-2014, 08:52 AM (This post was last modified: 18-06-2014 08:55 AM by WitchSabrina.)
RE: Satanism and Ritualism
Personally I have no problems with modern day Satanists. They are all about dedication to* self* and therefore all around them flourish. Whatever it is that gets them there I don't care.
Sure it began as attention for God's adversary but it grew from there and now no God or worship need apply.
Just my 2 cents worth.

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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