Satire is useless, bad?!
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23-04-2015, 12:40 PM
Satire is useless, bad?!
Yet again I come to rant about another discussion at uni. It was about Charlie Hebdo, and the person starting the conversation was saying that "they shouldn't have done that because it's not allowed by muslims". Which would follow that anything that is not allowed by muslims, we should also not do.

Another person, after I explained the importance of challenging common beliefs and norms through satire, "i understand the need we use to have for it but we don't need it any more, I think it's pointless".

My friends aren't very bright. They're the typical university students of this generation, overly optimistic living in a fantasy world where you should go out of your way to never ever hurt the feelings or offend others.

I don't support the actions of going out of your way to purposefully insult muslims, or any one for that matter. Though I do support free speech, including freedom to challenge norms, standards, ethics, concepts, EVERYTHING!!! It's a harmless way of progressing as a society. One of the benefits I saw from the past 10 years of the massive eruptions of outrage of the images of MoMo being in magazines n stuff is that a number of muslims have come out with their own images to show that they are not offended and that they are proud. They've embraced satire.

The problem I have when conversations like this arise is that I get so many things to say, I go into a total adrenaline rush meltdown and don't make any good points at all. All I could say is that satire is a fundamental part of a progress free society. Couldn't explain why because of my crazy mind. And that people should not DIE for satire.

I think I just get speechless at how ignorant some people can get. Not understand what satire is yet condemning it. Most people think it's just being rude, it's not.

Saints live in flames; wise men, next to them.
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23-04-2015, 01:04 PM
RE: Satire is useless, bad?!
Maybe not ignorant but convinced that religion is not to be criticized? And satire being rude or not shouldn't matter, killing to avenge imagined slights made to invisible friend is insane.

To me it does not matter if someone feels insulted, or think that his religion, values or whatever is being mocked. It doesen't justify murder. Thankfully I suppose it is kind off popular viewpoint, as French manifestation showed.

Lastly sattire and laugh are important - where is laugh there is no fear, or rather fear is lessened. And not being afraid of voicing one opinion is rather valuable thing.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

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23-04-2015, 02:10 PM
RE: Satire is useless, bad?!
(23-04-2015 01:04 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  Maybe not ignorant but convinced that religion is not to be criticized? And satire being rude or not shouldn't matter, killing to avenge imagined slights made to invisible friend is insane.

To me it does not matter if someone feels insulted, or think that his religion, values or whatever is being mocked. It doesen't justify murder. Thankfully I suppose it is kind off popular viewpoint, as French manifestation showed.

Lastly sattire and laugh are important - where is laugh there is no fear, or rather fear is lessened. And not being afraid of voicing one opinion is rather valuable thing.

Nicely put Smile Much better than my infantile whining.

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23-04-2015, 02:17 PM
RE: Satire is useless, bad?!
(23-04-2015 02:10 PM)SunnyD1 Wrote:  
(23-04-2015 01:04 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  Maybe not ignorant but convinced that religion is not to be criticized? And satire being rude or not shouldn't matter, killing to avenge imagined slights made to invisible friend is insane.

To me it does not matter if someone feels insulted, or think that his religion, values or whatever is being mocked. It doesen't justify murder. Thankfully I suppose it is kind off popular viewpoint, as French manifestation showed.

Lastly sattire and laugh are important - where is laugh there is no fear, or rather fear is lessened. And not being afraid of voicing one opinion is rather valuable thing.

Nicely put Smile Much better than my infantile whining.

Why infantile? I certainly understand anger directed at those who would try to curtail freedom of other in the name of religion. Also being kinda frustrated with people thinking that freedom of expression isn't exactly important is not something new to me.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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23-04-2015, 03:16 PM
RE: Satire is useless, bad?!
(23-04-2015 02:17 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(23-04-2015 02:10 PM)SunnyD1 Wrote:  Nicely put Smile Much better than my infantile whining.

Why infantile? I certainly understand anger directed at those who would try to curtail freedom of other in the name of religion. Also being kinda frustrated with people thinking that freedom of expression isn't exactly important is not something new to me.

Because it's guided by emotion rather than thinking... just like to complain a lot.. the mark of a Brit!

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23-04-2015, 03:29 PM
RE: Satire is useless, bad?!
(23-04-2015 03:16 PM)SunnyD1 Wrote:  
(23-04-2015 02:17 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  Why infantile? I certainly understand anger directed at those who would try to curtail freedom of other in the name of religion. Also being kinda frustrated with people thinking that freedom of expression isn't exactly important is not something new to me.

Because it's guided by emotion rather than thinking... just like to complain a lot.. the mark of a Brit!

I still would not consider it infantile. As for the complaining, while I do not like doing this, living in religious country leave me no other choice Wink

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

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23-04-2015, 03:39 PM
RE: Satire is useless, bad?!
(23-04-2015 12:40 PM)SunnyD1 Wrote:  [hide]
Yet again I come to rant about another discussion at uni. It was about Charlie Hebdo, and the person starting the conversation was saying that "they shouldn't have done that because it's not allowed by muslims". Which would follow that anything that is not allowed by muslims, we should also not do.

Another person, after I explained the importance of challenging common beliefs and norms through satire, "i understand the need we use to have for it but we don't need it any more, I think it's pointless".

My friends aren't very bright. They're the typical university students of this generation, overly optimistic living in a fantasy world where you should go out of your way to never ever hurt the feelings or offend others.

I don't support the actions of going out of your way to purposefully insult muslims, or any one for that matter. Though I do support free speech, including freedom to challenge norms, standards, ethics, concepts, EVERYTHING!!! It's a harmless way of progressing as a society. One of the benefits I saw from the past 10 years of the massive eruptions of outrage of the images of MoMo being in magazines n stuff is that a number of muslims have come out with their own images to show that they are not offended and that they are proud. They've embraced satire.

The problem I have when conversations like this arise is that I get so many things to say, I go into a total adrenaline rush meltdown and don't make any good points at all. All I could say is that satire is a fundamental part of a progress free society. Couldn't explain why because of my crazy mind. And that people should not DIE for satire.

I think I just get speechless at how ignorant some people can get. Not understand what satire is yet condemning it. Most people think it's just being rude, it's not.
[/hide]

Actually, the attitude of your friends is a very nice subject to write a satire about.

Quantum Physics: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
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23-04-2015, 03:42 PM
RE: Satire is useless, bad?!
(23-04-2015 03:39 PM)Alex K Wrote:  
(23-04-2015 12:40 PM)SunnyD1 Wrote:  [hide]
Yet again I come to rant about another discussion at uni. It was about Charlie Hebdo, and the person starting the conversation was saying that "they shouldn't have done that because it's not allowed by muslims". Which would follow that anything that is not allowed by muslims, we should also not do.

Another person, after I explained the importance of challenging common beliefs and norms through satire, "i understand the need we use to have for it but we don't need it any more, I think it's pointless".

My friends aren't very bright. They're the typical university students of this generation, overly optimistic living in a fantasy world where you should go out of your way to never ever hurt the feelings or offend others.

I don't support the actions of going out of your way to purposefully insult muslims, or any one for that matter. Though I do support free speech, including freedom to challenge norms, standards, ethics, concepts, EVERYTHING!!! It's a harmless way of progressing as a society. One of the benefits I saw from the past 10 years of the massive eruptions of outrage of the images of MoMo being in magazines n stuff is that a number of muslims have come out with their own images to show that they are not offended and that they are proud. They've embraced satire.

The problem I have when conversations like this arise is that I get so many things to say, I go into a total adrenaline rush meltdown and don't make any good points at all. All I could say is that satire is a fundamental part of a progress free society. Couldn't explain why because of my crazy mind. And that people should not DIE for satire.

I think I just get speechless at how ignorant some people can get. Not understand what satire is yet condemning it. Most people think it's just being rude, it's not.
[/hide]

Actually, the attitude of your friends is a very nice subject to write a satire about.

Haha, it would!

Saints live in flames; wise men, next to them.
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23-04-2015, 03:42 PM
RE: Satire is useless, bad?!
(23-04-2015 12:40 PM)SunnyD1 Wrote:  Yet again I come to rant about another discussion at uni. It was about Charlie Hebdo, and the person starting the conversation was saying that "they shouldn't have done that because it's not allowed by muslims". Which would follow that anything that is not allowed by muslims, we should also not do.

Another person, after I explained the importance of challenging common beliefs and norms through satire, "i understand the need we use to have for it but we don't need it any more, I think it's pointless".

My friends aren't very bright. They're the typical university students of this generation, overly optimistic living in a fantasy world where you should go out of your way to never ever hurt the feelings or offend others.

I don't support the actions of going out of your way to purposefully insult muslims, or any one for that matter. Though I do support free speech, including freedom to challenge norms, standards, ethics, concepts, EVERYTHING!!! It's a harmless way of progressing as a society. One of the benefits I saw from the past 10 years of the massive eruptions of outrage of the images of MoMo being in magazines n stuff is that a number of muslims have come out with their own images to show that they are not offended and that they are proud. They've embraced satire.

The problem I have when conversations like this arise is that I get so many things to say, I go into a total adrenaline rush meltdown and don't make any good points at all. All I could say is that satire is a fundamental part of a progress free society. Couldn't explain why because of my crazy mind. And that people should not DIE for satire.

I think I just get speechless at how ignorant some people can get. Not understand what satire is yet condemning it. Most people think it's just being rude, it's not.

Good to know I'm not a typical university student then... I mean, I know I'm not bright, but I ain't no optimist.

My take is that satire is basically a necessity. Well structured satire can be an excellent vehicle for exposing flaws in a communicable and understandable way to others. Additionally, it can serve as a good indicator for when a person or group is ready to be intellectually challenged: if satire evokes a highly emotional reaction from proponents, they are unlikely to be ready for a foray into intellectual criticism: It shows they are too attached to accept criticism. If a person can't even deal with the part-picking of a satirist, how will that deal with cold, calculated evisceration one can expect from a thorough intellectual evaluation of their idea?

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23-04-2015, 03:45 PM
RE: Satire is useless, bad?!
(23-04-2015 03:42 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(23-04-2015 12:40 PM)SunnyD1 Wrote:  Yet again I come to rant about another discussion at uni. It was about Charlie Hebdo, and the person starting the conversation was saying that "they shouldn't have done that because it's not allowed by muslims". Which would follow that anything that is not allowed by muslims, we should also not do.

Another person, after I explained the importance of challenging common beliefs and norms through satire, "i understand the need we use to have for it but we don't need it any more, I think it's pointless".

My friends aren't very bright. They're the typical university students of this generation, overly optimistic living in a fantasy world where you should go out of your way to never ever hurt the feelings or offend others.

I don't support the actions of going out of your way to purposefully insult muslims, or any one for that matter. Though I do support free speech, including freedom to challenge norms, standards, ethics, concepts, EVERYTHING!!! It's a harmless way of progressing as a society. One of the benefits I saw from the past 10 years of the massive eruptions of outrage of the images of MoMo being in magazines n stuff is that a number of muslims have come out with their own images to show that they are not offended and that they are proud. They've embraced satire.

The problem I have when conversations like this arise is that I get so many things to say, I go into a total adrenaline rush meltdown and don't make any good points at all. All I could say is that satire is a fundamental part of a progress free society. Couldn't explain why because of my crazy mind. And that people should not DIE for satire.

I think I just get speechless at how ignorant some people can get. Not understand what satire is yet condemning it. Most people think it's just being rude, it's not.

Good to know I'm not a typical university student then... I mean, I know I'm not bright, but I ain't no optimist.

My take is that satire is basically a necessity. Well structured satire can be an excellent vehicle for exposing flaws in a communicable and understandable way to others. Additionally, it can serve as a good indicator for when a person or group is ready to be intellectually challenged: if satire evokes a highly emotional reaction from proponents, they are unlikely to be ready for a foray into intellectual criticism: It shows they are too attached to accept criticism. If a person can't even deal with the part-picking of a satirist, how will that deal with cold, calculated evisceration one can expect from a thorough intellectual evaluation of their idea?

Perfect! It's so much more than plain ridicule.

Ever since I read the satire "Candide" by Voltaire I've stayed well away from optimism.

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