Saudi cleric claims Sun rotates around the Earth
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31-08-2016, 11:07 AM
RE: Saudi cleric claims Sun rotates around the Earth
Somebody should ask him why when you are in a moving vehicle and drop something the vehicle doesn't move out from underneath it.

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31-08-2016, 11:11 AM
RE: Saudi cleric claims Sun rotates around the Earth
I'm going up in a balloon and let Europe come to me.
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31-08-2016, 11:25 AM
RE: Saudi cleric claims Sun rotates around the Earth
(31-08-2016 08:19 AM)izel Wrote:  This is why Muslim countries are light years ahead of the rest of the world Facepalm




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31-08-2016, 12:00 PM
RE: Saudi cleric claims Sun rotates around the Earth
All you have to do is learn about gravity and why certain cosmic bodies get caught up in the orbit of another to understand why we revolve around the sun and not the other way around, our planet would have to be much bigger for one thing and the other planets would most likely not exist or also be orbiting around Earth as well, which isn't the case.

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31-08-2016, 01:10 PM
RE: Saudi cleric claims Sun rotates around the Earth
(31-08-2016 08:47 AM)Gloucester Wrote:  
(31-08-2016 08:36 AM)izel Wrote:  Yeah but, one of the saddest thing is that, these regions had such a rich and fascinating history, such as those in Iran and Iraq (more specifically, Mesopotamia). Our civilization just owes so much to those regions, which were by far the most advanced in early antiquity, but today they have some of the most backwards cultures in humanity. I always wonder what those places would be like if Islam was never created Consider
Muslim scientists, in the middle-aged, took Indian, Greek and Roman knowledge and built on it. Maths, astronomy and medicine were their strong points IIRC.

Yet, on another forum, a Sunni said that all those discoveries and advancements were worthless if they were Shi'a in origin.

Most of the damage to the Islamic heritage in science has been done by Muslims. They have only themselves to blame for their backwardness.

The issue I take with the whole concept of "Islamic Golden Age" is that it is, fundamentally, a pretty absurd misattribution. No one would argue that western scientific discoveries are "Christian discoveries", even if the scientists themselves were Christians. It just makes no sense, because religion itself, and particularly Islam, are tremendously anti-science. A lot of Golden Age scientists were persecuted and worked in precarious conditions.

Can you say that Arabic culture assisted the development of previously undeveloped areas? Sure. Can you say that happened because of Islam? Definitely not. Not directly, at least (Islam helped with the whole "conquering" part, which is hardly exclusive to it, and could have happened in a much less brutal fashion)

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31-08-2016, 01:43 PM (This post was last modified: 31-08-2016 02:02 PM by Grasshopper.)
RE: Saudi cleric claims Sun rotates around the Earth
(31-08-2016 12:00 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  All you have to do is learn about gravity and why certain cosmic bodies get caught up in the orbit of another to understand why we revolve around the sun and not the other way around, our planet would have to be much bigger for one thing and the other planets would most likely not exist or also be orbiting around Earth as well, which isn't the case.

You would be surprised how people who believe this stuff can twist all that. It's not limited to Muslims. There are some hard-core "traditional" Catholics (you can find some of them on the Fisheaters and Suscipe Domine forums) who believe in all seriousness that (a) the earth is absolutely stationary -- it does not rotate and it does not orbit anything else; (2) the earth is the center of the solar system, and everything else in the solar system orbits the earth; (3) the earth is the center of the entire universe, and hence everything in the universe orbits the earth!

Why do they believe this? Basically, because that's what the Bible says, and the Bible can't possibly be wrong because, you know, it's the word of God. Therefore any science that contradicts the Bible must be wrong. So they cook up their own "science" to support what the Bible says. The sun is much smaller and much closer than scientists say it is, and so is everything else. Red shift shows that just about everything else in the universe is moving away from us, and therefore we must be at the center (never mind that you would make the same observation from any other point in the universe). And so on. They have never bothered to learn any real science, because they're convinced that the Bible cannot possibly be wrong, and therefore the science must be.

Arguing with these people is like banging your head against a wall, so I stopped trying.
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31-08-2016, 01:44 PM
RE: Saudi cleric claims Sun rotates around the Earth
(31-08-2016 08:36 AM)izel Wrote:  I always wonder what those places would be like if Islam was never created Consider

Or the Mongols never invaded and destroyed the region city by city turning it into a virtual wasteland.

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31-08-2016, 02:13 PM
RE: Saudi cleric claims Sun rotates around the Earth
(31-08-2016 01:10 PM)izel Wrote:  
(31-08-2016 08:47 AM)Gloucester Wrote:  Muslim scientists, in the middle-aged, took Indian, Greek and Roman knowledge and built on it. Maths, astronomy and medicine were their strong points IIRC.

Yet, on another forum, a Sunni said that all those discoveries and advancements were worthless if they were Shi'a in origin.

Most of the damage to the Islamic heritage in science has been done by Muslims. They have only themselves to blame for their backwardness.

The issue I take with the whole concept of "Islamic Golden Age" is that it is, fundamentally, a pretty absurd misattribution. No one would argue that western scientific discoveries are "Christian discoveries", even if the scientists themselves were Christians. It just makes no sense, because religion itself, and particularly Islam, are tremendously anti-science. A lot of Golden Age scientists were persecuted and worked in precarious conditions.

Can you say that Arabic culture assisted the development of previously undeveloped areas? Sure. Can you say that happened because of Islam? Definitely not. Not directly, at least (Islam helped with the whole "conquering" part, which is hardly exclusive to it, and could have happened in a much less brutal fashion)
If you have studied this subject I have to bow to greater knowledge. True, the label "Islamic" has almost certainly been tacked on by historians, since it was the principle power st that time and place. But from what I have read, albeit many years ago, the "Moors" of southern Spain had their fingers well into many subjects when the Christians were still mostly riding around chopping one another about.

Then there is the "University" in Timbuctu, in the tenth century onwards where, in addition to religious studies, what we now call the sciences were also taught openly according to what I read.

I would never praise a religion per se but would wish to give credit to any person or group who advanced humanity through teaching and discovery. I would not wish my personal feelings about any religion deny the individual achievements of its members. Michael Farady, one of my scientific "heroes," was a staunchly religious man, but that does not diminish his genius one iota.

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31-08-2016, 02:29 PM
RE: Saudi cleric claims Sun rotates around the Earth
(31-08-2016 02:13 PM)Gloucester Wrote:  
(31-08-2016 01:10 PM)izel Wrote:  The issue I take with the whole concept of "Islamic Golden Age" is that it is, fundamentally, a pretty absurd misattribution. No one would argue that western scientific discoveries are "Christian discoveries", even if the scientists themselves were Christians. It just makes no sense, because religion itself, and particularly Islam, are tremendously anti-science. A lot of Golden Age scientists were persecuted and worked in precarious conditions.

Can you say that Arabic culture assisted the development of previously undeveloped areas? Sure. Can you say that happened because of Islam? Definitely not. Not directly, at least (Islam helped with the whole "conquering" part, which is hardly exclusive to it, and could have happened in a much less brutal fashion)
If you have studied this subject I have to bow to greater knowledge. True, the label "Islamic" has almost certainly been tacked on by historians, since it was the principle power st that time and place. But from what I have read, albeit many years ago, the "Moors" of southern Spain had their fingers well into many subjects when the Christians were still mostly riding around chopping one another about.

Then there is the "University" in Timbuctu, in the tenth century onwards where, in addition to religious studies, what we now call the sciences were also taught openly according to what I read.

I would never praise a religion per se but would wish to give credit to any person or group who advanced humanity through teaching and discovery. I would not wish my personal feelings about any religion deny the individual achievements of its members. Michael Farady, one of my scientific "heroes," was a staunchly religious man, but that does not diminish his genius one iota.

That's true.
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31-08-2016, 02:49 PM
RE: Saudi cleric claims Sun rotates around the Earth



#sigh
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