Saudi cleric claims Sun rotates around the Earth
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31-08-2016, 02:57 PM
RE: Saudi cleric claims Sun rotates around the Earth
(31-08-2016 02:49 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  


I didn't watch the video (I'm at work), but something like this came up in my arguments with the geocentrist wackos. In the model where the earth is absolutely stationary, the only explanation for our seasons would be that the sun orbits the earth in a helical pattern that reverses direction every 6 months. Try to explain that! Gravity (and even general relativity) is so much simpler.
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31-08-2016, 03:16 PM
RE: Saudi cleric claims Sun rotates around the Earth
(31-08-2016 01:44 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Or the Mongols never invaded and destroyed the region city by city turning it into a virtual wasteland.
First of all, Banjo, can't tell you how happy I am to see you back Heart.

(31-08-2016 02:13 PM)Gloucester Wrote:  If you have studied this subject I have to bow to greater knowledge. True, the label "Islamic" has almost certainly been tacked on by historians, since it was the principle power st that time and place. But from what I have read, albeit many years ago, the "Moors" of southern Spain had their fingers well into many subjects when the Christians were still mostly riding around chopping one another about.

Then there is the "University" in Timbuctu, in the tenth century onwards where, in addition to religious studies, what we now call the sciences were also taught openly according to what I read.

I would never praise a religion per se but would wish to give credit to any person or group who advanced humanity through teaching and discovery. I would not wish my personal feelings about any religion deny the individual achievements of its members. Michael Farady, one of my scientific "heroes," was a staunchly religious man, but that does not diminish his genius one iota.

Islam is, literally, an empire building religion, like literally, either Uthman when he "collected" the Quran or Muhammad himself when he was inventing his little ponzi scheme. The so called Islamic Golden Age, was nothing more than how empires operate.

Empires need a single official codified language to unify all parts of the imperial bureaucracy. Personally I think it has more to do with the greatness of Persian, Mesopotamians, Ebla ancient Syrian, Babylonian, Egyptian/Greek and Vedic Indian, and all the other ancient cultures than it has to do with the opressive religion of Islam itself. The Arabian region has been a cross roads in times past and had many different ethnic groups, languages, arts, peoples, but they as a people in region flourished despite the nature of Islamic culture. Islam at its root has many flaws and was after all was founded by an illiterate, child molesting rapist after all.

During the Islamic Golden age, there was inclusive society where Muslims, Jews, Christian and Pegans could go study and learn. The vast majority of contributions to Maths & Science were from Muslim Scholars, my favorite is Nasir al-Din al-Tusi; he was responsible for some mathematical laws & he theorized human evolution 600 years before Darwin (he was a religious scholar too).

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31-08-2016, 03:25 PM
RE: Saudi cleric claims Sun rotates around the Earth
Thanks Izel.

I agree re' Islam. It resembles and is very much a copy of xianity. One needs to account always for the many wars fought between xian Rome and the middle eastern empires. To have an empire such as xian Rome must've seemed desirable. Accept of course for Valerian's misfortune. Nevertheless the empire continued, when not in the west still in the east. By the 7th century it must have seemed strong indeed.

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31-08-2016, 03:36 PM
RE: Saudi cleric claims Sun rotates around the Earth
This guy is a complete idiot. Facepalm

If he ever was willing to seek the truth in reality rather than in a book written by ignorant savages, then all he would need is:

1) A mosque (yes, a f.ing Mosque)
2) A long rope
3) something heavy

Then he could make a Foucault pendulum Smartass

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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31-08-2016, 04:45 PM
RE: Saudi cleric claims Sun rotates around the Earth
That idiot should loosen the towel. It's cutting off the blood flow to his brain.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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31-08-2016, 05:17 PM
RE: Saudi cleric claims Sun rotates around the Earth
(31-08-2016 04:45 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  That idiot should loosen the towel. It's cutting off the blood flow to his brain.

He likely thinks satellites don't exist while owning the latest I phone.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
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31-08-2016, 06:30 PM
RE: Saudi cleric claims Sun rotates around the Earth
(31-08-2016 08:36 AM)izel Wrote:  
(31-08-2016 08:29 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  Yea and? Islam doesn't own a patent on scientific ignorance. We have nuts here in "Merka" who think the flood happened and just a few months ago Neil deGrasse Tyson bitch sapped a flat earther rap star on the Nightly Show.

Yeah but, one of the saddest thing is that, these regions had such a rich and fascinating history, such as those in Iran and Iraq (more specifically, Mesopotamia). Our civilization just owes so much to those regions, which were by far the most advanced in early antiquity, but today they have some of the most backwards cultures in humanity. I always wonder what those places would be like if Islam was never created Consider

No we don't, we only owe remembering history, not clinging to absurd claims. Our species in reality has always evolved to seek answers and investigate and invent. Every continent has produced contributors to advancement in our species history.

Even other species of mammals seek to figure things out. And as far as being backwards, every religion has the potential to become a volcano. I'd only agree at this point in history Islam has the biggest PR problem. But they are not the patent holders on modern society nor are they the patent holders on human cruelty. Our species behaviors regardless, are not in holy books or religious labels, but in our evolution.

Even if you stripped the world of all three religions of Abraham, and only look at the histories of all others, you'd see the same tribalism and pockets of cooperation and conquests. The problem is our species creates these artificial constructs to set up social order, but the truth is it is nothing but excuses to get at resources. Our species existed long before any written religions or boarders.

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31-08-2016, 06:40 PM
RE: Saudi cleric claims Sun rotates around the Earth
(31-08-2016 02:57 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(31-08-2016 02:49 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  


I didn't watch the video (I'm at work), but something like this came up in my arguments with the geocentrist wackos. In the model where the earth is absolutely stationary, the only explanation for our seasons would be that the sun orbits the earth in a helical pattern that reverses direction every 6 months. Try to explain that! Gravity (and even general relativity) is so much simpler.

I understand the point you are making in this particular case. However I want to emphasize that simplicity is not a useful criteria, except where we are choosing between two competing hypotheses that are equally predictive. There is no requirement for a good hypothesis to be simple. I stand to be corrected if I am wrong.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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01-09-2016, 12:00 AM
RE: Saudi cleric claims Sun rotates around the Earth
(31-08-2016 08:36 AM)izel Wrote:  
(31-08-2016 08:29 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  Yea and? Islam doesn't own a patent on scientific ignorance. We have nuts here in "Merka" who think the flood happened and just a few months ago Neil deGrasse Tyson bitch sapped a flat earther rap star on the Nightly Show.

Yeah but, one of the saddest thing is that, these regions had such a rich and fascinating history, such as those in Iran and Iraq (more specifically, Mesopotamia). Our civilization just owes so much to those regions, which were by far the most advanced in early antiquity, but today they have some of the most backwards cultures in humanity. I always wonder what those places would be like if Islam was never created Consider

They were advanced civilizations when they were occupied by Europeans. As the ice cap covering Europe receded and Mesopotamia turned into an arid desert, they left and the people left behind are the slave classes they created who hung onto their old cults and rituals while Europeans adopted Hellenistic Christianity. If Islam had not been created they would be the same because no one reads the Koran. Muslims in real life just follow a lot of rituals like circumcision and animal sacrifice and circumambulation of a meteorite and they engage in bigamy, beheading and all the sorts of things they did before Islam.
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01-09-2016, 01:01 AM
RE: Saudi cleric claims Sun rotates around the Earth
(31-08-2016 08:47 AM)Gloucester Wrote:  
(31-08-2016 08:36 AM)izel Wrote:  Yeah but, one of the saddest thing is that, these regions had such a rich and fascinating history, such as those in Iran and Iraq (more specifically, Mesopotamia). Our civilization just owes so much to those regions, which were by far the most advanced in early antiquity, but today they have some of the most backwards cultures in humanity. I always wonder what those places would be like if Islam was never created Consider
Muslim scientists, in the middle-aged, took Indian, Greek and Roman knowledge and built on it. Maths, astronomy and medicine were their strong points IIRC.

Yet, on another forum, a Sunni said that all those discoveries and advancements were worthless if they were Shi'a in origin.

Most of the damage to the Islamic heritage in science has been done by Muslims. They have only themselves to blame for their backwardness.

Yes, and the Catholics burned Bruno at the stake for asserting that the stars we see are otherwordly suns.

Every religion, every one, tamps down on science when science encroaches upon its beliefs. And every religion shields its beliefs with a veil of hypocrisy.
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