Saved by Grace.
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23-11-2011, 03:19 PM
Saved by Grace.
I have always had great problems with this major Christian doctrine.

Saved from what? The Fall perhaps? ---when we descended with Beelzebub and those others bored with God's wonderous heaven.

Most Christians teach that Jesus/God suffered intense pain nailed to a cross to save the world from the great sin that had developed here on earth. The fact that an omnniscient God would have known in advance about all that future sin is fobbed off by dubious arguments relating to religious "free will".

The Saved by Grace notion teaches that all who accept Jesus as their personal saviour will be saved through their faith and that simply performing good deeds is inadequate. What sort of sick theology is this? By going to Mass one can sin as often as one likes and be forgiven by the priest till the next offense comes up.. Not very positive!

A serious ramification from such fantasies is the fact that any crazy person (talking to god perhaps) will believe that any attrocity they committ ,in gods name, will be forgiven irrespective: so long as they thought they were obeying their master's will.

Motivation by fantasy is an extreme health hazard!
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23-11-2011, 04:12 PM
RE: Saved by Grace.
I know, huh? I mean, if Grace is this supermodel type knocking on my door; I may hafta repent, be in need of salvation. Other than that... Angel

Sola fides from Paul is faith as the empty set. I know how it works, but you gotta be an atheist. How's that for mysterious ways? Big Grin

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24-11-2011, 04:46 PM
RE: Saved by Grace.
(23-11-2011 03:19 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  Motivation by fantasy is an extreme health hazard!

I fear this is pervasive, Mr. Woof, and I don't think it's limited to just theists. "Saved by grace" means to me to try and be as graceful as possible as I stumble and bumble and blunder my way through whatever this shit is I currently find myself in.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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24-11-2011, 04:59 PM
RE: Saved by Grace.
(23-11-2011 03:19 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  Motivation by fantasy is an extreme health hazard!

And the fantasy that money has value is one of the most pervasive. Wink

One of the things that I feel makes me a decent human being is an ability to look beyond myself without the need of a moralizing agency. My original post was reaction, this post in consideration to Girly's reaction; one thing I feel that unites us as atheists is critical thinking in this manner. That it is not enough to be right as individuals, but rather to look towards a greater completeness of right in atheism as a whole.

As has been noted, atheism is not a religion but rather a reaction to religion; and rather than react by establishing more religion which has been the broken record of the past, that we should act as individuals knowing that the absolute good is us. Wink

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24-11-2011, 05:25 PM
RE: Saved by Grace.
HoC, have you switched up your meds? That sounded extremely coherent and well-stated. Smile

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
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24-11-2011, 06:25 PM
RE: Saved by Grace.
In my LC thread, there is three days between post 41 and 47, where the latter states the intent of the former with less words and ambiguity. I do not intend to be obtuse and incoherent; rather I am "insane" in that I have a non-standard signal processor that doesn't seem to code concept from word in the standard manner.

No meds. If anything, it is a continuously decreasing intake of my "self-proscribed medication" adding to clarity.

And thank you. Wink

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24-11-2011, 07:57 PM (This post was last modified: 24-11-2011 08:04 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Saved by Grace.
(24-11-2011 04:59 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  One of the things that I feel makes me a decent human being is an ability to look beyond myself without the need of a moralizing agency.

Dude, I think that is a prerequisite of being a human being. Wink

(24-11-2011 06:25 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  No meds. If anything, it is a continuously decreasing intake of my "self-proscribed medication" adding to clarity.

Girly's on the increasing dosage side, between the two of us think we got it covered.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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24-11-2011, 08:28 PM
RE: Saved by Grace.
Aren't we supposed to need saving because of original sin? Maybe someone who actually used to be a christian could correct me on that..

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use." - Galileo

"Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do." - Voltaire
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24-11-2011, 08:39 PM (This post was last modified: 26-11-2011 11:19 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Saved by Grace.
.......

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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24-11-2011, 08:40 PM
RE: Saved by Grace.
(24-11-2011 07:57 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(24-11-2011 04:59 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  One of the things that I feel makes me a decent human being is an ability to look beyond myself without the need of a moralizing agency.

Dude, I think that is a prerequisite of being a human being. Wink

Wonderful, if true; to limit "evangelical atheist" to this locality of insanity. Big Grin

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