Saw a bumper sticker today
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02-02-2015, 12:22 PM
RE: Saw a bumper sticker today
(02-02-2015 11:36 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(02-02-2015 09:33 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  * Darwin himself said evolution is absurd because of the eye! He didn’t say absurd, and we have since learned how it evolved. (sheesh)

Darwin himself went on to explain why it wasn’t absurd in the paragraph following that disingenuous quote mining.


Quote:* Scientists are becoming more and more Christian in light of the evidence. Just the opposite you mindless cropolite. How about citing this drivel you speak of or stfu.
* There’s a liberal, atheist conspiracy among scientists to kill God, and they’re suppressing the evidence. Where did I leave my machete, I know it’s around here somewhere...

Interesting that they can hold those two beliefs simultaneously. It'd be interesting to see what percentage of scientists they think have become Christian and what percentage are part of the global atheist conspiracy to suppress the "evidence".

Keep in mind Robby is simply listing all the crap he comes across when debating the theists on FB.

Interesting point you bring up about the two silmultaneously held, but opposing, apologetics.

PS Chapter 20, have you sent it?

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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02-02-2015, 01:30 PM
RE: Saw a bumper sticker today
(02-02-2015 12:22 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Keep in mind Robby is simply listing all the crap he comes across when debating the theists on FB.

Understood; I was just elaborating on a couple of the replies (for whoever else may be reading and because I'm an opinionated bastard!)

Quote:Interesting point you bring up about the two silmultaneously held, but opposing, apologetics.

Cognitive dissonance is a way of life under theism

Quote:PS Chapter 20, have you sent it?

You should have gotten a PM about it (to see if that works better than the emails for GH). If not, PM me and I'll re-send it.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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02-02-2015, 03:10 PM
RE: Saw a bumper sticker today
(02-02-2015 09:33 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  Yes they do Rob. The following is how I suspect you would handle the situation as each successive obstacle was introduced.

Kind of, except that I very seldom discuss evolution with creationists anymore. It's tiring, repetitive, and I'll admit, surprising, when I run into someone who has made a point to learn a lot about why evolution is wrong. There are lots of people out there who have studied the apologetics and terminology, and can say a lot more on the matter than me.

I don't really know what homology is, but this one guy does, and according to him, it's the nail in the coffin of evolution. He's almost certainly engaging in pseudoscience and/or dishonesty, but it's frankly beyond what I know about evolution.


(02-02-2015 11:36 AM)unfogged Wrote:  Interesting that they can hold those two beliefs simultaneously. It'd be interesting to see what percentage of scientists they think have become Christian and what percentage are part of the global atheist conspiracy to suppress the "evidence".

Yeah, I have no idea. All I get is vague "more and more scientists" or sometimes even "most scientists", but never anything to back that. Just their wishful thinking made into assertion. As for how they hold them both, I imagine it's a bit of a No True Scientist Scotsman argument, holding that a true scientist would be honest and admit the evidence of creation.

I really have lost my appetite for talking to theists about anything "evidence"-based.
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02-02-2015, 03:21 PM
RE: Saw a bumper sticker today
(02-02-2015 03:10 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  I don't really know what homology is, but this one guy does, and according to him, it's the nail in the coffin of evolution. He's almost certainly engaging in pseudoscience and/or dishonesty, but it's frankly beyond what I know about evolution.

Actually, homology is strong evidence of evolution, so he is almost certainly engaging in pseudoscience and/or dishonesty.

Homology essentially means same structure on whatever level. For example, all mammals have homologous skeletons - that is, all mammal skeletons are the same skeleton. It's all the same bones connected the same way, just that some bones are longer or shorter, thicker or thinner. Common ancestry, much?

There are homologues at the gene level, the DNA sequence level, all levels in between. Common ancestry, convergent evolution - it all supports evolution.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-02-2015, 05:48 PM
RE: Saw a bumper sticker today
(02-02-2015 03:21 PM)Chas Wrote:  There are homologues at the gene level, the DNA sequence level, all levels in between. Common ancestry, convergent evolution - it all supports evolution.

From their perspective it shows economy of design-- create one basic pattern and then adjust it as needed for each "kind". That almost makes some sense but you get some real outliers like the nerve that runs the entire length of the giraffe's neck twice to reach a destination a few inches away. Guess god didn't notice that when he stretched the neck of the base model; it is easily explained by evolutionary processes but doesn't really fit well with the single template hypothesis.

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02-02-2015, 10:17 PM
RE: Saw a bumper sticker today
(02-02-2015 03:10 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  I don't really know what homology is, but this one guy does, and according to him, it's the nail in the coffin of evolution. He’s almost certainly engaging in pseudoscience and/or dishonesty, but it's frankly beyond what I know about evolution.

If anything homology strengthens the case for evolution.

[Image: bone-20structure-jpg.jpg]

[Image: Homologous+Structures.jpg]

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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03-02-2015, 12:37 AM
RE: Saw a bumper sticker today
Quote:My granddaddy weren't no monkey!

Something for which I'm sure monkeys are eternally grateful.

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03-02-2015, 06:16 AM
RE: Saw a bumper sticker today
(02-02-2015 03:21 PM)Chas Wrote:  Actually, homology is strong evidence of evolution, so he is almost certainly engaging in pseudoscience and/or dishonesty.

Homology essentially means same structure on whatever level. For example, all mammals have homologous skeletons - that is, all mammal skeletons are the same skeleton. It's all the same bones connected the same way, just that some bones are longer or shorter, thicker or thinner. Common ancestry, much?

There are homologues at the gene level, the DNA sequence level, all levels in between. Common ancestry, convergent evolution - it all supports evolution.

I figured as much. It just gets beyond my understanding of evolution, so I'm not comfortable debating it.

It ends up getting brought up more than I like on the apologetics group I'm in. As soon as I ask a genuine hard question, they immediately deflect and start attacking evolution (or abiogenesis or the big bang because they think all three are synonymous with atheism) so they don't have to address the holes in their world view. There are a lot of people there who seem to have a violent reaction to actual scrutiny of that which they consider sacred.
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03-02-2015, 08:59 AM
RE: Saw a bumper sticker today
(03-02-2015 06:16 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  There are a lot of people there who seem to have a violent reaction to actual scrutiny of that which they consider sacred.

AH! Time for some appropriate quotes.

The problem with writing about religion is that you run the risk of offending sincerely religious people, and they come after you with machetes.
~Dave Barry

Demands that you believe the impossible does not lead to peaceful outcomes.
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The most dangerous place to stand is in between someone and what they want to believe.
~unknown

Collective fear stimulates herd instinct, and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd.
~Bertrand Russell

Persecution is used in theology, not in arithmetic.
~Bertrand Russell

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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03-02-2015, 09:08 AM
RE: Saw a bumper sticker today
(01-02-2015 07:50 PM)smileXsmileXsmile Wrote:  I saw a bumper sticker today. It said "The truth is the truth no matter who believes it" I thought, "Oh man! That's a sweet bumper sticker. I really like that one." Then I look closer and in smaller text it references the bible, "John some#:some#"

How ironic is that!? "the truth is the truth no matter who believes it" then, right along side it, a BIBLE verse! Talk about ironic

They mistake warm fuzzies and tradition as being "truth".

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