School Shooting in Portland OR today.
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11-06-2014, 01:17 AM
RE: School Shooting in Portland OR today.
(11-06-2014 12:53 AM)kim Wrote:  
(11-06-2014 12:16 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I hope that one day this country will end its love affair with guns -- not simply guns but violence. I've personally seen enough gun violence in my life. But I've also seen people do far worse without a gun in sight.

I think that's it. It's not really about the guns... it's not even about the violence, per se ... it's about the people.

It's very much like rape; it's really about who's in control. A person with a weapon decides who is in control and it becomes, "I'll show everyone I'm in control, by letting them see just how out of control I can let this get."

Also, "People will do with a crowd what they might never attempt as individuals." People are detached from the crowd but, they know there is a crowd out there just waiting for something to happen. It's become, I don't see any choices for me... may as well join the club... stick another pin in that map.

But doesn't a gun give you a sense of not killing someone "with your own hands"? It allows you to commit a crime from a distance and probably not really feel you have actually killed someone.

Killing someone with a gun is not as "violent" as killing them with a knife for example. Do you think that if all those people couldn't find guns, they'd follow the same plan, but instead of a gun use a knife?

I, too, believe that guns are not the reason school shootings happen. But the way the US handle the matter sure makes it a hell lot easier.

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11-06-2014, 02:48 AM
RE: School Shooting in Portland OR today.
(10-06-2014 11:09 AM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  Ugh. What kind of world am I bringing my hobbit into.

The real one. Sorry to say but the world is not all sugar and spice and everything nice, and your little hobbit will eventually have to learn thatUndecided.

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11-06-2014, 06:19 AM
RE: School Shooting in Portland OR today.
(11-06-2014 12:16 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(10-06-2014 06:21 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  I don't think so, but parents can and kids can easily grab one from home.

Then shouldn't the parents keep them locked up?

I guess my point is there must be responsibility -- a gun is an inanimate object that on its own does nothing. I don't see guns are the problem. I see the problem being people, who are complacent or apathetic, or just think those things happen to other families.

I hope that one day this country will end its love affair with guns -- not simply guns but violence. I've personally seen enough gun violence in my life. But I've also seen people do far worse without a gun in sight.

I agree with you 100%. A knife can be just as deadly as a gun.

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11-06-2014, 06:45 AM
RE: School Shooting in Portland OR today.
(10-06-2014 11:28 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  President Obama points to Australian gun control laws as an example of why the US ‘should be ashamed’
http://news.com.au/national/president-ob...6950336777

Go us!

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11-06-2014, 08:37 AM
RE: School Shooting in Portland OR today.
(11-06-2014 02:48 AM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  
(10-06-2014 11:09 AM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  Ugh. What kind of world am I bringing my hobbit into.

The real one. Sorry to say but the world is not all sugar and spice and everything nice, and your little hobbit will eventually have to learn thatUndecided.

There in lies our problem. We just sit back and say "Thats life, nothing we can do about it"
Fuck that, you want something fixed you fucking fix it. Not just take it cause "thats life" THATS the lesson shes gonna learn...with less fucks in it.
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11-06-2014, 08:42 AM
RE: School Shooting in Portland OR today.
(11-06-2014 06:45 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(10-06-2014 11:28 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  President Obama points to Australian gun control laws as an example of why the US ‘should be ashamed’
http://news.com.au/national/president-ob...6950336777

Go us!

Yes. Go Australia.
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11-06-2014, 11:47 AM
RE: School Shooting in Portland OR today.
Horrific as mass shooting are, their casualties only amount to 1% of all shooting deaths. For every ten people felled in a shooting rampage, 1000 more are killed elsewhere, 1 at a time. Something over 300 people are killed daily in the US by gunfire. Mass shootings are not a significant problem, if one regards death by gunshot itself to be a problem.

But as media sensations mass shootings get public attention, and as they steadily pile up corpses they might finally be the catalyst that forces loose the NRA's deathgrip on the popular mindset.

An important missing perspective is what I term the "first casualty". More than 99% of gunshot victims are the first casualty of a gun incident. They caught the first bullet to inflict harm. If we wanted to do anything serious about reducing gun violence we would focus on reducing "first casualties", since at better than 99% of the carnage they constitute virtually the whole problem by themselves.

You won't stop first casualties with return gunfire. Maybe 2nd & 3rd casualties. But not first ones. The first casualty already felled is what tells everyone else an incident has started. Reaction can't save that first victim. And that first victim is more than 99% of all victims. Most of the time the first victim is the only victim.

Eliminating guns would save many first casualties. It's quite probably the most effective means of saving them. But such elimination can't be made by going after the guns. Look at how well going after drugs has "eliminated" the drug problem.

It's a mindset problem. The US mindset is at variance with the rest of the civilised world. Our culture embraces and worships violence as a viable social tool. We also are extraordinarily fearful of "the other", whatever that "other" might be, a country, a cult, the next door neighbor. There's much about this mindset that resembles religion, and as the US is much more religious than much of the civilised world the connection could be more than statistical coincidence.

But whatever its roots, the gun problem won't be solved by guns, either by making more of them, or by trying to take them away directly. That said, I think having guns as easy to acquire as a can of beer is lunacy, and burdening them with as many restrictions and regulations as we at least put on operating motor vehicles is something only a lunatic would resist. But until we shift our mindset, guns will keep mowing down first casualties with the same reliability as sunset.
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11-06-2014, 01:39 PM
RE: School Shooting in Portland OR today.
Here's is a rather alarming yet, interesting, quick statistic I hang on to... I learned it from a podcast ...

Suicide is more common than Homicide. In fact, the suicide rate in the US is double the homicide rate. This does not make the news... for reasons the podcast goes into, quite in depth.
By the way, Hungary has the highest suicide rate in the world (it has for the past century)... it's currently more than double the suicide rate in the US.

The podcast was Freakonomics Radio and the episode is called The Suicide Paradox. Here's an introduction for this episode and it can be streamed (maybe downloaded?) from this page. I highly recommend it. Thumbsup

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11-06-2014, 02:53 PM
RE: School Shooting in Portland OR today.
(11-06-2014 06:19 AM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(11-06-2014 12:16 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Then shouldn't the parents keep them locked up?

I guess my point is there must be responsibility -- a gun is an inanimate object that on its own does nothing. I don't see guns are the problem. I see the problem being people, who are complacent or apathetic, or just think those things happen to other families.

I hope that one day this country will end its love affair with guns -- not simply guns but violence. I've personally seen enough gun violence in my life. But I've also seen people do far worse without a gun in sight.

I agree with you 100%. A knife can be just as deadly as a gun.


Yes, but a knife can't take out 15 or 20 people within a matter on seconds. A man or woman with a knife must use physical connection with the other person's body to inflict death. A bullet and the shooter of the bullet is far removed from the victims physical body which makes death easier to accomplish.

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He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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11-06-2014, 02:56 PM
RE: School Shooting in Portland OR today.
(10-06-2014 05:59 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(10-06-2014 05:09 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  http://www.vox.com/2014/6/10/5797306/map...sandy-hook

[Image: Screen_Shot_2014-06-10_at_1.48.46_PM.png]

Every School Shooting since Sandy Hook. But the ridiculous ease of acquiring a firearm is not part of the problem and should never be raised when this happens.

Rev, I totally disagree with you but the chances of me changing your mind is about the same as you changing my mind....about zero. Therefore, I'll just move on.

Did you not get the obvious sarcasm in this post?

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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