School Shooting in Portland OR today.
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11-06-2014, 03:07 PM
RE: School Shooting in Portland OR today.
(11-06-2014 02:56 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(10-06-2014 05:59 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Rev, I totally disagree with you but the chances of me changing your mind is about the same as you changing my mind....about zero. Therefore, I'll just move on.

Did you not get the obvious sarcasm in this post?

You forgot the Drinking Beverage, the primary indicator of sarcasm and/or indifference.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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11-06-2014, 03:26 PM
RE: School Shooting in Portland OR today.
(11-06-2014 11:47 AM)Airportkid Wrote:  Horrific as mass shooting are, their casualties only amount to 1% of all shooting deaths. For every ten people felled in a shooting rampage, 1000 more are killed elsewhere, 1 at a time. Something over 300 people are killed daily in the US by gunfire. Mass shootings are not a significant problem, if one regards death by gunshot itself to be a problem.

But as media sensations mass shootings get public attention, and as they steadily pile up corpses they might finally be the catalyst that forces loose the NRA's deathgrip on the popular mindset.

An important missing perspective is what I term the "first casualty". More than 99% of gunshot victims are the first casualty of a gun incident. They caught the first bullet to inflict harm. If we wanted to do anything serious about reducing gun violence we would focus on reducing "first casualties", since at better than 99% of the carnage they constitute virtually the whole problem by themselves.

You won't stop first casualties with return gunfire. Maybe 2nd & 3rd casualties. But not first ones. The first casualty already felled is what tells everyone else an incident has started. Reaction can't save that first victim. And that first victim is more than 99% of all victims. Most of the time the first victim is the only victim.

Eliminating guns would save many first casualties. It's quite probably the most effective means of saving them. But such elimination can't be made by going after the guns. Look at how well going after drugs has "eliminated" the drug problem.

It's a mindset problem. The US mindset is at variance with the rest of the civilised world. Our culture embraces and worships violence as a viable social tool. We also are extraordinarily fearful of "the other", whatever that "other" might be, a country, a cult, the next door neighbor. There's much about this mindset that resembles religion, and as the US is much more religious than much of the civilised world the connection could be more than statistical coincidence.

But whatever its roots, the gun problem won't be solved by guns, either by making more of them, or by trying to take them away directly. That said, I think having guns as easy to acquire as a can of beer is lunacy, and burdening them with as many restrictions and regulations as we at least put on operating motor vehicles is something only a lunatic would resist. But until we shift our mindset, guns will keep mowing down first casualties with the same reliability as sunset.

Something else to think about is the staggering amount of inmates in our prison system and those who wouldn't be there if no gun had been available. We all can make bad decisions, but with a gun in our hands, a split second, a bad decision and our life and our families lives are in turmoil sometimes for generations to come. It's one thing to be poor and on drugs but guns have created the "bad guys" gun advocates talk about so much. Without a gun a drug addict is just a drug addict but with a gun he's often behind bars. There is a underlying racists attitude to the NRA regarding guns. It help keeps the black population behind bars. It makes many black men "bad guys" because they got a gun and shot someone while on drugs.

So generally I don't say much about guns and I don't curse much but yesterday when I was hearing all the sirens racing down the street to Reynolds High School, a little more than a mile from my house, I was wishing I were some sort of magical queen of the world. If I were I'd take every god damn gun in this whole country and that includes hunting rifles and police weapons and send them to the fucking sun. And I'd say Fuck your Fucking god damn 2nd Amendment! Learn to live with out a gun.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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11-06-2014, 03:30 PM
RE: School Shooting in Portland OR today.
(11-06-2014 02:53 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(11-06-2014 06:19 AM)JDog554 Wrote:  I agree with you 100%. A knife can be just as deadly as a gun.


Yes, but a knife can't take out 15 or 20 people within a matter on seconds. A man or woman with a knife must use physical connection with the other person's body to inflict death. A bullet and the shooter of the bullet is far removed from the victims physical body which makes death easier to accomplish.

Japanese man killed 13 people with a knife in 2010. Link
Knifes can be deadly. Guns are not the only way to cause harm.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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11-06-2014, 07:36 PM
RE: School Shooting in Portland OR today.
(11-06-2014 03:30 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(11-06-2014 02:53 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Yes, but a knife can't take out 15 or 20 people within a matter on seconds. A man or woman with a knife must use physical connection with the other person's body to inflict death. A bullet and the shooter of the bullet is far removed from the victims physical body which makes death easier to accomplish.

Japanese man killed 13 people with a knife in 2010. Link
Knifes can be deadly. Guns are not the only way to cause harm.


He would have killed three times that many with a gun.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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11-06-2014, 07:58 PM
RE: School Shooting in Portland OR today.
(11-06-2014 07:36 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(11-06-2014 03:30 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  Japanese man killed 13 people with a knife in 2010. Link
Knifes can be deadly. Guns are not the only way to cause harm.


He would have killed three times that many with a gun.

Don't blame the gun though, not the gun's fault someone with bad intention's got a hold of it. You say take away all guns. Think about that if a cop risk's his life and shoots a criminal about to kill you. Think about the families who would be defenseless if a burglar broke into a home with an illegally obtained gun and the family cannot defend themselves because they follow the rules and are not able to obtain a suitable gun for defense and get murdered.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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11-06-2014, 08:04 PM
RE: School Shooting in Portland OR today.
(11-06-2014 07:58 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(11-06-2014 07:36 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  He would have killed three times that many with a gun.

Don't blame the gun though, not the gun's fault someone with bad intention's got a hold of it. You say take away all guns. Think about that if a cop risk's his life and shoots a criminal about to kill you. Think about the families who would be defenseless if a burglar broke into a home with an illegally obtained gun and the family cannot defend themselves because they follow the rules and are not able to obtain a suitable gun for defense and get murdered.

You realise the rest of the 1st world does not have this problem right? This is not even the same in Canada. Your strawman fails.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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11-06-2014, 08:09 PM
RE: School Shooting in Portland OR today.
Why do you guys always talk about guns ? It is far less interesting than dynamite.

Dynamite sticks, a far more efficient weapon than guns. They are of various sizes, always ready for your lust for demolition ... er, sorry, for your protection.

Nowadays is a time even a knife can deal substaintial damage. So what's the point of keeping dynamite out of willing-to-kill ... er, sorry, ordinary law-abiding citizen's hands ?

Please join us in the around-the-globe effort of lifting the dynamite bans. (This message is sponsored by GEA, the Global Explosives Assosiation.)

Tongue

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11-06-2014, 08:11 PM
RE: School Shooting in Portland OR today.
(11-06-2014 08:04 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(11-06-2014 07:58 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  Don't blame the gun though, not the gun's fault someone with bad intention's got a hold of it. You say take away all guns. Think about that if a cop risk's his life and shoots a criminal about to kill you. Think about the families who would be defenseless if a burglar broke into a home with an illegally obtained gun and the family cannot defend themselves because they follow the rules and are not able to obtain a suitable gun for defense and get murdered.

You realise the rest of the 1st world does not have this problem right? This is not even the same in Canada. Your strawman fails.

3 RCMP officers were killed in a shooting a few days ago. sounds like they have an issue too. Getting rid of guns is not going to solve any problems. They once made alcohol illegal and look how that turned out. I think making it much harder to obtain a gun and putting more restrictions will help but if you take away guns people will just find something else to kill with.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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11-06-2014, 08:17 PM
RE: School Shooting in Portland OR today.
(11-06-2014 08:11 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(11-06-2014 08:04 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  You realise the rest of the 1st world does not have this problem right? This is not even the same in Canada. Your strawman fails.

3 RCMP officers were killed in a shooting a few days ago. sounds like they have an issue too. Getting rid of guns is not going to solve any problems. They once made alcohol illegal and look how that turned out. I think making it much harder to obtain a gun and putting more restrictions will help but if you take away guns people will just find something else to kill with.

Go back up thread and see what Australia did. They had roughly the same gun per capita as the US does now and they fixed their problem.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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11-06-2014, 08:24 PM
RE: School Shooting in Portland OR today.
(11-06-2014 08:17 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(11-06-2014 08:11 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  3 RCMP officers were killed in a shooting a few days ago. sounds like they have an issue too. Getting rid of guns is not going to solve any problems. They once made alcohol illegal and look how that turned out. I think making it much harder to obtain a gun and putting more restrictions will help but if you take away guns people will just find something else to kill with.

Go back up thread and see what Australia did. They had roughly the same gun per capita as the US does now and they fixed their problem.

Stricter gun laws, exactly what I just said they should do Facepalm . I'm not saying give people more guns i'm just saying taking them away completely won't help. Making them harder for troubled people and people with medical conditions and stuff like that will but people who use them in a bad way should not ruin it for people who use them to protect themselves or use them for recreation ie hunting.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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