School Tragedies are Caused by Seperation of Church and State?
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15-12-2012, 12:58 AM
School Tragedies are Caused by Seperation of Church and State?
So, I knew living in the bible belt as an atheist can be...overwhelming sometimes. The attached post is from a friend, and it was liked by mostly mutual friends, and some of my family members through marriage a total of 41 times in the matter of a few hours. The scary thing is that most of them would definitely blame atheists for taking their god out of school. Of course God is not absent in school, I can assure you. Far from it. Prayer in school led by a faculty member was the norm when I graduated nine years ago, and the overwhelming majority of the students were part of a Christian club. The school even hired a Christian metal band to come play in our gym, twice. All of these people know that as well, most of them attended the same school.

So what do these people want? To ensure the rest of America is like our town? Do they want to shut up non-believers? Mandantory preaching in school? Do these people earnestly beleive that violence in school is because of separation of church and state?


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15-12-2012, 02:21 AM
RE: School Tragedies are Caused by Seperation of Church and State?
It is not unlike the religious to attempt to put two uncorrelated factors together in order to advance their agenda.

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15-12-2012, 02:57 AM
RE: School Tragedies are Caused by Seperation of Church and State?
What you have to remember is that they believe this shit (religion) as much as we believe in.. nothing.
So when they say "put the religion back school" it is much the same as us saying "take the religion out of schools".

Well, you know, except for the fact that we are right and they are wrong.

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15-12-2012, 03:10 AM
RE: School Tragedies are Caused by Seperation of Church and State?
(15-12-2012 02:57 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  What you have to remember is that they believe this shit (religion) as much as we believe in.. nothing.
So when they say "put the religion back school" it is much the same as us saying "take the religion out of schools".

Well, you know, except for the fact that we are right and they are wrong.
Not exactly. The religious people don't want to put religion back into schools. Want they want is THEIR religious beliefs taught in schools, and pushed on young minds; there is a huge difference. Fuck not only secularists, fuck everyone who doesn't worship the same way. It wouldn't even be enough to have THEIR god or religion taught in school, it would need to be their denomination. Don't believe me? Ask a protestant how they would feel about their child attending a catholic school, do it, I triple-dog dare you. The vast majority will go on about the Catholics worshiping false gods, and how the pope is the anti-christ, and so on. The other side, the one that they didn't happen to be born into is the crazy side. What this means is that they want a small splinter of a specific religion, of a specific god to be taught in [insert country here]'s school system. They think that is a better approach than letting religion be taught at home. That's how mind-boggling of a proposal they're advocating. Most of them would also readily insult Muslim countries for doing the exact same thing, because their way is the right way.

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15-12-2012, 03:15 AM
RE: School Tragedies are Caused by Seperation of Church and State?
(15-12-2012 02:57 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  What you have to remember is that they believe this shit (religion) as much as we believe in.. nothing.
So when they say "put the religion back school" it is much the same as us saying "take the religion out of schools".

Well, you know, except for the fact that we are right and they are wrong.
Schools in the US are supposed to be secular - so it is a constant battle to keep them that way from people who would have their personal beliefs pedaled and pushed in them. Regardless of how much they believe, and how much we don't... it isn't supposed to matter. Secular school because of a separation of church and state. Period.

But people will look anywhere and point fingers at anyone and everything when an opportunity arises, even upon the worst circumstances... if it'll fit their agenda.
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15-12-2012, 09:00 AM
RE: School Tragedies are Caused by Seperation of Church and State?
I was listening to the news this morning about the most recent school shooting on 770am based out of NY. The guy who did it had a form of autism. The guest on the radio was blaming it on violent movies and games. Knowing what I have read about autism and the way it is in some people, he might not have been in control of what he was doing. Most of us that are into the violent video games and movies, also know that there is a huge effort to do away with the violent games. It would not surprize me one bit if there was some kind of hidden message that only someone with a specific type of autism could see that caused this. After all, what do the religious fundamentalists care if children get killed if it gets rid of the immoral violent video games? I am not a crazy conspiracy theorist, I am just thinking about why he would have snapped like that. If he truly didn't know right from wrong, he would not have killed himself. If I was going to program someone to do something like that, the last thing I would want is for the to survive. He's dead, so he can't say "The tv told me to.". And you are correct if you think that I don't trust the government. Given their use of drones, it is clear that they don't give a shit about colateral damage even if it is children.
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15-12-2012, 09:25 AM
RE: School Tragedies are Caused by Seperation of Church and State?
You can start a philosophical debate knocking yourself out trying to find an 'explanation' to blame politics, but at the end of the day these school tragedies are essentially caused by raving lunatics with far too easy access to guns.


So the problem is too many lunatics running around free, and too many guns available to them far too easily.


Solution: euthanize the lunatics and dump the guns in the Pacific.
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15-12-2012, 10:11 AM
RE: School Tragedies are Caused by Seperation of Church and State?
It's not just the religious. This sort of headline -- especially before the actual proximate causes are discovered -- is a reason for EVERYONE to trot out their pet theories and social agendas. In addition to gun control and mental health advocates (both groups will likely have salient points), I'm sure we'll be hearing from the people who say this could have been preventable if we had harsher prison sentences for everything, or if we didn't mandate vaccines with mercury in them, or allow violent movies and video games, or if we only made metal detectors and armed guards and teachers mandatory at schools.

Or paid more attention to astrology (hey, a good reading could have PREDICTED this, right?) and the prophesies of Nostradamus.

"If I ignore the alternatives, the only option is God; I ignore them; therefore God." -- The Syllogism of Fail
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15-12-2012, 10:13 AM
RE: School Tragedies are Caused by Seperation of Church and State?
(15-12-2012 09:25 AM)Janus Wrote:  You can start a philosophical debate knocking yourself out trying to find an 'explanation' to blame politics, but at the end of the day these school tragedies are essentially caused by raving lunatics with far too easy access to guns.


So the problem is too many lunatics running around free, and too many guns available to them far too easily.


Solution: euthanize the lunatics and dump the guns in the Pacific.


That is no solution. First of all, who decides what is a lunatic? Secondly getting rid of guns is as stupid as getting rid of nukes. While it is silly that we still need to use them against each other, it is also stupid to assume that we should never need guns or nukes. Just like when humanity was still new and we thought that we were not only alone on the planet (white people) or any culture for that matter, we discovered that it was not true. Imagine that we get rid of our offensive weapons and discover that we are not even alone in the solar system, let alone in the galaxy and our nearest neighbors are not peaceful. It is human nature to crave power. If you disarm most of a population and only allow one group to carry weapons, the ones that are armed have no incentive to be fair.
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15-12-2012, 10:22 AM (This post was last modified: 15-12-2012 10:29 AM by Janus.)
RE: School Tragedies are Caused by Seperation of Church and State?
(15-12-2012 10:13 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  
(15-12-2012 09:25 AM)Janus Wrote:  You can start a philosophical debate knocking yourself out trying to find an 'explanation' to blame politics, but at the end of the day these school tragedies are essentially caused by raving lunatics with far too easy access to guns.


So the problem is too many lunatics running around free, and too many guns available to them far too easily.


Solution: euthanize the lunatics and dump the guns in the Pacific.


That is no solution. First of all, who decides what is a lunatic?


Like always: the justice system.

Quote:Secondly getting rid of guns is as stupid as getting rid of nukes. While it is silly that we still need to use them against each other, it is also stupid to assume that we should never need guns or nukes. Just like when humanity was still new and we thought that we were not only alone on the planet (white people) or any culture for that matter, we discovered that it was not true. Imagine that we get rid of our offensive weapons and discover that we are not even alone in the solar system, let alone in the galaxy and our nearest neighbors are not peaceful. It is human nature to crave power. If you disarm most of a population and only allow one group to carry weapons, the ones that are armed have no incentive to be fair.

Bullshit! If that were the case all European countries would be armed and violent dictatorships. But they are'nt.

Quote:the ones that are armed have no incentive to be fair.

You described the USA on the world stage to a T.
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