School dress codes, objectification, admiration. Mostly for women.
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09-12-2015, 01:13 PM (This post was last modified: 09-12-2015 02:00 PM by Adrianime.)
School dress codes, objectification, admiration. Mostly for women.
I won't say too much here, but I'll ask some questions.

If a woman wears a top, intentionally showing cleavage, should she be offended when somebody gazes at her in admiration?

If a "developed" 14-15 year old girl puts on make-up and wears skin-tight or other revealing clothing so that she looks more or less like what a "Sexy 20 year old" would look like. Should a 25 year old person who found her attractive be shamed? Or feel guilty?

Is it wrong to acknowledge when a woman's body is beautiful? Why or why not?

Should girls in school fight to be able to wear as revealing of clothing as is allowed in a mall? If so, is work any different? Why or why not? How is a work dress code more acceptable than a school dress code?

Is the fight for the de-sexualization of breasts a worthy cause? Or is it unreasonable to expect societies to change? If breasts are literally arousing to many, how do you de-sexualize them?

What is objectification? If you admire and find beautiful the female body is that objectification? Or does it need to go a step or two further? Gazing? Staring? Pick-up lines? Harassment? Assault?

Is it body shaming to tell a woman that because people may find her body beautiful and appealing that it should not be fully exposed?

Note: there are obvious parallel questions I could ask about men/boys, but that topic isn't nearly as widespread an issue of contention.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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09-12-2015, 01:50 PM
RE: School dress codes, objectification, admiration. Mostly for women.
I think choice of clothes is personal mostly, with the caveat that school-kids need some guidance 'cos they haven't got a clue and need a bit of protection because yes, kids are vulnerable and it's easy for them to be taken advantage of. In that case I'd be inclined to trust it to the parents *except* that parents are also fucken clueless as fuck, so then it comes down to school dress-code... But in general other than kids I think people should be able to wear what they like - even go nude if they want, except that most societies have laws against that.

I am happy to have a look and to acknowledge if someone is pretty. If they dress to look good, it's rude *not* to appreciate them IMO.

I don't know if it's body shaming, but I do think anyone attempting to tell another person what they can wear should go fuck themselves. That said, I remember there was the case of that cop who caused the whole slut walk movement to start, who as far as I could make out was basically badly communicating the idea that in some neighbourhoods dressing sexy could be lethal. I don't think *advice* is bad. "Should" and moralising is bullshit.

Objectification is looking at a person not as a person but as a thing - in terms of sex, usually a thing you want to have sex with. I... want to have sex with lots of people, but I do think of them as people, so I think I'm in the clear. Thinking of a person as a thing means not considering that they have feelings too, just considering yourself.

People are welcome to try desexualising breasts, I imagine that would involve desensitisation by exposure to lots and lots of boobs? I'll sign up for that.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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09-12-2015, 02:14 PM
RE: School dress codes, objectification, admiration. Mostly for women.
Spoilering because I don't want to derail your thread but I can't resist.
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09-12-2015, 02:14 PM
RE: School dress codes, objectification, admiration. Mostly for women.
If I understand correctly your questions, you are wondering what is the proper etiquette when it comes to cloathing, relation with women and presentation at school and work. There is no easy way to answer all those questions, but there is many books on etiquette which could interest you as well as several historical books on its transformation and philosophical background.

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09-12-2015, 02:30 PM
RE: School dress codes, objectification, admiration. Mostly for women.
I have boobs. I do wear lower cut tops sometimes--but I don't intentionally try and have cleavage--it just happens when you have larger breasts. I don't care if guys look--it's natural. I check guys out who don't have shirts on all the time. But looking is not the same as touching (which has happened to me) or saying something extremely graphic and sexually charged to a woman you don't know (also something that's happened to me).

If someone thinks another person is older than what they are--no, they shouldn't feel bad for "checking them out." But once they find out the true age of the person--or if there is even a question as to how old someone is (i.e. a minor)--then, no they shouldn't be looking at them in a sexual way.

I like when a boyfriend comments on my body. Because to me that's part of flirting and being sexual with each other. I don't like it when some random dude does.

I don't think minors should wear sexually suggestive clothing in school or at the mall or anywhere for that matter. Maybe that's the ex-christian in me, but if I had a daughter, I would not let her dress in a provocative manner. If she wants to when she is an adult--well-then she can do what she wants.

I don't think breasts should be de-sexualized. Being aroused by the female body is natural. Being aroused by a male body is natural. Sex is natural. I think sex should be enjoyed and that includes all erogenous zones.

I don't think it's objectification to find the female body attractive. It's natural. It's objectification to view a woman solely as a sex object and for little else.

I would not want a man telling me what I should or should not be wearing. I would hope that if he was with me and loved me--he would trust my judgment in terms of my own clothing choices. That said, I will usually ask a guy I am dating what I should wear if I am going some place I have never been before or going to a work function with them etc. But I would also ask the same thing of my female friends.

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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09-12-2015, 02:30 PM
RE: School dress codes, objectification, admiration. Mostly for women.
I find it very odd that there are laws requiring women to hide their breasts.
They are not dangerous. They are not unhygienic.

If the problem is with regards to some men's reactions, well, that is the man's problem. The solution should be on the man's side not the woman's. Don't make it a problem of the woman.

If breasts were common place then society would be desensitised. It wouldn't be such a big deal.

Why is society so prudish?
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09-12-2015, 02:57 PM
RE: School dress codes, objectification, admiration. Mostly for women.
(09-12-2015 02:14 PM)epronovost Wrote:  If I understand correctly your questions, you are wondering what is the proper etiquette when it comes to cloathing, relation with women and presentation at school and work. There is no easy way to answer all those questions, but there is many books on etiquette which could interest you as well as several historical books on its transformation and philosophical background.
Oh, no I'm not asking for my sake. These questions are for the sake of discussion. I want to know what you think. Not anything from an etiquette book.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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09-12-2015, 03:04 PM
RE: School dress codes, objectification, admiration. Mostly for women.
(09-12-2015 02:30 PM)Stevil Wrote:  I find it very odd that there are laws requiring women to hide their breasts.
They are not dangerous. They are not unhygienic.

If the problem is with regards to some men's reactions, well, that is the man's problem. The solution should be on the man's side not the woman's. Don't make it a problem of the woman.

If breasts were common place then society would be desensitised. It wouldn't be such a big deal.

Why is society so prudish?

Hear Hear! It is especially confusing and ridiculous when it affects breast feeding mothers, who are doing the very best they can do for the health and welfare of the baby.
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09-12-2015, 03:09 PM
RE: School dress codes, objectification, admiration. Mostly for women.
Sometimes it's hard for us women to accept compliments. It would be easier for me to appreciate a compliment on my body if I knew that expressing that appreciation will not make the guy get closer and ask for my phone number.

Let's face it, if a guy is looking at your butt and you smile at him, that's flirting. Guys can stare as much as they want. I don't mind. I just won't respond to it. It may even cheer me up on a day when I'm not feeling confident.

I'm not sure I answered to any of your questions here, I was mostly venting Laugh out load

Oh and boobs are awesome. Women shouldn't try to hide them and men shouldn't feel ashamed to look at them. It's only natural. I've recently started wearing bras less often. They can be painful and I really don't need them much. I don't give a flying fuck about people who are offended by nipples.

"Behind every great pirate, there is a great butt."
-Guybrush Threepwood-
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09-12-2015, 03:58 PM
RE: School dress codes, objectification, admiration. Mostly for women.
IMO the guidelines are pretty straightforward:

It's never okay to blame someone's outfit for your bad behavior.

If you wouldn't comment on a male colleague's appearance and sex appeal, then don't do it to a female colleague (or student, etc.). Save it for the bar or the party.
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