School shooting at SC Elementary School
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30-09-2016, 09:15 PM
RE: School shooting at SC Elementary School
(30-09-2016 04:31 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(30-09-2016 02:28 PM)Gloucester Wrote:  But it is still up to individual gun owners to bother use such devices each and every time, at home or out of it. Once again the sheer numbers of owners mitigates against 100% responsibility and safe practice. Every accidental gsw is probably an instance of unsafe practice. Dityo some intentiknal ones.

Though there seem to be only about 500 such incidents a year how many times that are the potentials for such incidents? How many guns left around for the kids to get hold of, how many held by untrained or irresponsible people. . . .

Yes, those here might well be trained and/or responsible, how many are not? Estimates vary between 40 and 60 million US households with guns. So, is every single member in every gun owning household a trained or responsible person? And that is just the legal guns.

The stats are not on the side of 100% safe ownership. Cars are unsafe in the wrong hands as well, how many total dickheads are there on the road? I would bet the ratio of lazy, incompetent and unsafe to safe gun owners comes close to that of lazy, incompetent and unsafe to safe drivers - this is human nature after all.

Nothing at all in this world is 100% safe. Nothing.

True, even water kills probably thousands every year.

But, the sane action is to reduce the unsafe things, mitigate the danger, not spend millions promoting them - as once with tobacco, alcohol, fat, sugar . . . and guns still.

And the heed for a gun for personal protection simply says you are living in a sick society, not in the actual number of incidents, the US is well down in the world murder league tables, but that many of its citizens perceive themselves to be in sufficient danger. Because that always angry looking guy down the road might own a gun I need one - just in case. Because there were x shootings around here this month I need a gun myself.

And comparison with deaths by other causes is no excuse for wanting to actively promote a known, proven cause of innocents being injured or killed.

Ban the drunk drivers for life, ban those seen using a cell phone held to their ear whilst driving for at least a year. Mandatory, no appeal, no mitigation. Lost your job because of the ban? Tough, it's your own fault.

Killed your kids through negligence? Life sentence.

Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
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01-10-2016, 05:36 AM
RE: School shooting at SC Elementary School
(30-09-2016 04:31 PM)Chas Wrote:  Nothing at all in this world is 100% safe. Nothing.

Non sequitur. Drinking too much water will kill you, yes. So what?
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01-10-2016, 09:02 AM
RE: School shooting at SC Elementary School
(01-10-2016 05:36 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  
(30-09-2016 04:31 PM)Chas Wrote:  Nothing at all in this world is 100% safe. Nothing.

Non sequitur. Drinking too much water will kill you, yes. So what?

In your posts you demand 100% safety for firearms. That's what. Facepalm

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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01-10-2016, 09:57 AM
RE: School shooting at SC Elementary School
(01-10-2016 09:02 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(01-10-2016 05:36 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  Non sequitur. Drinking too much water will kill you, yes. So what?

In your posts you demand 100% safety for firearms. That's what. Facepalm

Still not getting the point, I see. Drinking Beverage
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01-10-2016, 10:06 AM
RE: School shooting at SC Elementary School
(01-10-2016 09:57 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  
(01-10-2016 09:02 AM)Chas Wrote:  In your posts you demand 100% safety for firearms. That's what. Facepalm

Still not getting the point, I see. Drinking Beverage

If you actually have a point, state it. Facepalm

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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01-10-2016, 10:48 AM
RE: School shooting at SC Elementary School
(01-10-2016 10:06 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(01-10-2016 09:57 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  Still not getting the point, I see. Drinking Beverage

If you actually have a point, state it. Facepalm

You never have a point, so why do I have to go first? Facepalm

However, simply because the systems are available doesn't mean the guns in homes are safe, because not all people will buy, not all of those will use them properly, and some of those will advise their children as to how to use the system.

BUT even if people have the system in place, use it as it should be used, and never allow children to learn how to use it, we still have the problem that guns in the home may or may not be available for "home defense" when required. The number of actual firearms uses in defense of a home or person is vanishingly small compared to the number of accidental shooting.
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01-10-2016, 11:05 AM
RE: School shooting at SC Elementary School
(01-10-2016 10:48 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  The number of actual firearms uses in defense of a home or person is vanishingly small compared to the number of accidental shooting.

Not so.

Quote: As detailed in the chart on the next page, for the five-year period 2007 through 2011, the NCVS estimates that there were 29,618,300 victims of attempted or completed violent crime. During this same five-year period, only 235,700 of the self-protective behaviors involved a firearm. Of this number, it is not known what type of firearm was used or whether it was fired or not. The number may also include off-duty law enforcement officers who use their firearms in self-defense.
http://www.vpc.org/studies/justifiable15.pdf

[Emphasis added -- Thump]

... and:

Quote:From 2005-2010, almost 3,800 people in the U.S. died from unintentional shootings.19
http://smartgunlaws.org/category/gun-stu...tatistics/

Obviously not a perfect overlap chronologically, but your claim is clearly contradicted by the facts.
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01-10-2016, 11:17 AM
RE: School shooting at SC Elementary School
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk...eople-die/
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01-10-2016, 07:00 PM
RE: School shooting at SC Elementary School
(01-10-2016 10:48 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  
(01-10-2016 10:06 AM)Chas Wrote:  If you actually have a point, state it. Facepalm

You never have a point, so why do I have to go first? Facepalm

Seriously? You made an untrue statement and I corrected you.
You demand 100% safety when nothing is 100% safe.

Quote:However, simply because the systems are available doesn't mean the guns in homes are safe, because not all people will buy, not all of those will use them properly, and some of those will advise their children as to how to use the system.

Nor did I ever say they are nor that all people would.

Quote:BUT even if people have the system in place, use it as it should be used, and never allow children to learn how to use it, we still have the problem that guns in the home may or may not be available for "home defense" when required.

You don't seem to understand what fast access storage devices are. The key point is 'fast access'.

Quote:The number of actual firearms uses in defense of a home or person is vanishingly small compared to the number of accidental shooting.

Wrong again.

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01-10-2016, 07:03 PM
RE: School shooting at SC Elementary School
(01-10-2016 11:17 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk...eople-die/

That's talking about criminals killed, not lives defended or crimes prevented.
It's a ridiculous comparison.

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