Science and Christianity
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19-02-2015, 05:37 PM
RE: Science and Christianity
(19-02-2015 05:24 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(19-02-2015 04:58 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  Dualism is rejected by the Catholic church. It's why Descartes is not looked favourably upon. Can't comment on the other sects unfortunately.

Citation required.

The Catholic Church believes is souls and an afterlife. That is dualism.

In regards to the afterlife it should be noted that in heaven we are going to get a new body.
In regards to the soul, I suppose there is a dualism just not the the extreme dualism of Descartes which has the mind or soul seperate from the body. In Catholicism, the body affects the soul and vice versa, they are inexorably intertwined.

Also my apologies for no source. I don't have my Catechism handy.

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19-02-2015, 05:46 PM
RE: Science and Christianity
(19-02-2015 05:37 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  
(19-02-2015 05:24 PM)Chas Wrote:  Citation required.

The Catholic Church believes is souls and an afterlife. That is dualism.

In regards to the afterlife it should be noted that in heaven we are going to get a new body.
In regards to the soul, I suppose there is a dualism just not the the extreme dualism of Descartes which has the mind or soul seperate from the body. In Catholicism, the body affects the soul and vice versa, they are inexorably intertwined.

Also my apologies for no source. I don't have my Catechism handy.

Intertwined or not, believing that anything of a person survives physical death is dualistic.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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19-02-2015, 05:49 PM
RE: Science and Christianity
(19-02-2015 05:36 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I don't know how you consider that a tenant* of Christianity. I'm not getting why Christianity requires you to be a realist at all.

There are some Christians I've seen try to support their claims of how this reality isn't real since it is just Gods test, that only heaven and hell are what are real. I don't know of any direct Christian ideas or textual formulations that declare our lives are in essence reality.

*tenet
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19-02-2015, 05:52 PM
RE: Science and Christianity
(19-02-2015 05:49 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(19-02-2015 05:36 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I don't know how you consider that a tenant* of Christianity. I'm not getting why Christianity requires you to be a realist at all.

There are some Christians I've seen try to support their claims of how this reality isn't real since it is just Gods test, that only heaven and hell are what are real. I don't know of any direct Christian ideas or textual formulations that declare our lives are in essence reality.

*tenet

Cellphone keyboard and not paying attention.

I'm homophobic in the same way that I'm arachnophobic. I'm not scared of gay people but I'm going to scream if I find one in my bath.

I'm. Also homophobic in the same way I'm arachnophobic. I'm scared of spiders but I'd still fuck'em.
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19-02-2015, 05:53 PM
RE: Science and Christianity
(19-02-2015 05:46 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(19-02-2015 05:37 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  In regards to the afterlife it should be noted that in heaven we are going to get a new body.
In regards to the soul, I suppose there is a dualism just not the the extreme dualism of Descartes which has the mind or soul seperate from the body. In Catholicism, the body affects the soul and vice versa, they are inexorably intertwined.

Also my apologies for no source. I don't have my Catechism handy.

Intertwined or not, believing that anything of a person survives physical death is dualistic.

Fair enough but how is this contrary to a realist metaphysics.

I'm homophobic in the same way that I'm arachnophobic. I'm not scared of gay people but I'm going to scream if I find one in my bath.

I'm. Also homophobic in the same way I'm arachnophobic. I'm scared of spiders but I'd still fuck'em.
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19-02-2015, 05:55 PM
RE: Science and Christianity
(19-02-2015 05:53 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  
(19-02-2015 05:46 PM)Chas Wrote:  Intertwined or not, believing that anything of a person survives physical death is dualistic.

Fair enough but how is this contrary to a realist metaphysics.

The existence of souls or survival beyond death are unevidenced and have no basis in reality.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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19-02-2015, 06:05 PM
RE: Science and Christianity
(19-02-2015 05:55 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(19-02-2015 05:53 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  Fair enough but how is this contrary to a realist metaphysics.

The existence of souls or survival beyond death are unevidenced and have no basis in reality.

A realist metaphysics just means that you believe physical reality is real and not a figment of your imagination. The contrary to a realist view would be that of a berkelian or brain in a jar view.
So whether or not you believe souls exist should have little bearing on whether you believe reality is real.

I'm homophobic in the same way that I'm arachnophobic. I'm not scared of gay people but I'm going to scream if I find one in my bath.

I'm. Also homophobic in the same way I'm arachnophobic. I'm scared of spiders but I'd still fuck'em.
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19-02-2015, 06:11 PM
RE: Science and Christianity
(19-02-2015 06:05 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  
(19-02-2015 05:55 PM)Chas Wrote:  The existence of souls or survival beyond death are unevidenced and have no basis in reality.

A realist metaphysics just means that you believe physical reality is real and not a figment of your imagination. The contrary to a realist view would be that of a berkelian or brain in a jar view.
So whether or not you believe souls exist should have little bearing on whether you believe reality is real.

Reality has evidence; souls do not.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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19-02-2015, 06:15 PM
RE: Science and Christianity
(18-02-2015 08:07 AM)Chas Wrote:  That Christianity has some precepts that are consistent with science doesn't mean much of anything when it has, at its core, tenets that are completely at odds with science.

Is this just a way of saying that Christianity is not compatible with ontological naturalism?

I don't see why Christianity would be incompatible with methodological naturalism, assume it in working methods. Especially considering that Christians are present in nearly every branch of science, this does seem to suggest this is quite possible.
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19-02-2015, 06:21 PM
RE: Science and Christianity
(19-02-2015 04:49 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  
(19-02-2015 05:36 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I don't know how you consider that a tenant of Christianity. I'm not getting why Christianity requires you to be a realist at all.

There are some Christians I've seen try to support their claims of how this reality isn't real since it is just Gods test, that only heaven and hell are what are real. I don't know of any direct Christian ideas or textual formulations that declare our lives are in essence reality.

The dogma of the incarnation basically requires a realist metaphysics otherwise the God becoming flesh has no meaning. Also although I am saying Christian, I am mostly refering to the more technical sects such as Catholicism, Orthodox, and Anglican.

Well I'd say it's rather too generalized than to speak on those sects when using Christianity. When Christianity is used in it's label away from the Catholic/Orthodox labels the protestant ideas are just as equally valid to come up; if not more so.

I'm less familiar with all the pulled in details of what is granted by the orthodox ideas. But I know often the point why the liberal Christianity side of Catholicism is said to contrast believing in the scientific method and being a scientist. It's because when they have the stance that God can and has at any point altered the world through manipulation be it miracles or divine interpretation, it's possibility of happening at any time alters the mindset of testing for results.

But also, that reality is real doesn't "come from Christianity" it's within these forms of Christianity. But because Plato thought something doesn't mean much. Aristotle was more of what the western world became founded upon and what these elements of Christianity grew up accepting in a philosophical sense. There was plenty other philosophical idealist or realist types of conflicts that influenced or questioned Christianity.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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