Scientific Paradigms
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21-04-2012, 12:58 PM (This post was last modified: 21-04-2012 01:21 PM by TrainWreck.)
RE: Scientific Paradigms
(19-04-2012 01:21 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  You presume that the captains of the ships believed they would not sail off the edge of the table onto the floor just to be eaten by the dog. Might've just been adventurers and explorers looking for an adrenalin rush. No faith required.
You still haven't answered the question about how to convince the crew. And I would argue that the captain is going to be motivated by economic prosperity of finding the more efficient global trading route, rather than adventure.

(20-04-2012 08:18 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  Humans have known that the earth is round since at least 5000 years BC, and that knowledge was never lost. Various calculations about its size came and went over that period but reasonably accurate calculations certainly preceded Christ.
. . . And, somehow the information was kept secret by the oppressive intellectual religious organization until the 1600's, because such information released to the ignorant ghetto dwellers and proliterian workers would have caused, what???

A) free democratic societies
B) Utopian secular society
C) atheist intellectual society

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Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
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21-04-2012, 01:57 PM (This post was last modified: 21-04-2012 02:18 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Scientific Paradigms
(21-04-2012 12:58 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  
(19-04-2012 01:21 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  You presume that the captains of the ships believed they would not sail off the edge of the table onto the floor just to be eaten by the dog. Might've just been adventurers and explorers looking for an adrenalin rush. No faith required.
You still haven't answered the question about how to convince the crew.

Whaddya' mean? I convince them with a paycheck, same way the fuckers continue to convince me to row, row, row the boat. If they find the compensation inadequate, well they got the same options I do. ... Well, they might not have had the same access to nitrogen gas that I do. Smile

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
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Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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22-04-2012, 02:36 PM
RE: Scientific Paradigms
Financial compensation has no meaning at sea, and survival mean everything.

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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22-04-2012, 03:04 PM
RE: Scientific Paradigms
(22-04-2012 02:36 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  Financial compensation has no meaning at sea, and survival mean everything.
I rate it has plenty meaning. Bartholomew Diaz, Vasco Da Gama, Columbus, all those early explorer guys undertook long voyages to unknown lands. Pretty sure they didn't sit their sailors all down and have a nice rational talk about the shape of the earth before they went. Sailing is and was a job just like any other. You get the paycheck you do the job. It was a dangerous job and many people did die. They still went.
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22-04-2012, 03:08 PM
RE: Scientific Paradigms
How the hell would any of us know how individual captains from a point in human history prior to the understanding of gravity convinced their crew the water wouldn't drain off of a sphere? Why do you assume the sailors even thought of that question? Maybe they didn't think it had anywhere to go. Maybe it drained off of one side and onto the other. Your question makes no damn sense.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
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22-04-2012, 06:02 PM (This post was last modified: 22-04-2012 06:09 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Scientific Paradigms
(22-04-2012 02:36 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  Financial compensation has no meaning at sea, and survival mean everything.


Why the hell did you sign onboard then, brother? ...

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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24-04-2012, 08:30 AM (This post was last modified: 24-04-2012 12:11 PM by TrainWreck.)
RE: Scientific Paradigms
(22-04-2012 06:02 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(22-04-2012 02:36 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  Financial compensation has no meaning at sea, and survival mean everything.


Why the hell did you sign onboard then, brother? ...
Because, I was failing in my college pursuits, and I was confident that I would not be risking my life anymore in the Navy than my drunk driving practices in my failing life.

But anyway, we are comparing two different social eras. They didn't have the convenient financial system that we enjoy in the modern era - they didn't have a 24 hour galley and geedunk store like I had on the USS Forest Fire.


(22-04-2012 03:08 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  How the hell would any of us know how individual captains from a point in human history prior to the understanding of gravity convinced their crew the water wouldn't drain off of a sphere? Why do you assume the sailors even thought of that question? Maybe they didn't think it had anywhere to go. Maybe it drained off of one side and onto the other. Your question makes no damn sense.
You cannot make sense of it??? Do you consider yourself an independent and critical thinker???

You got it right, why inform the sea hands that it is a sphere and that the Far East can be reached by sailing west?

That is the argument for why the Galileo information was suppressed by the Church, that atheists so gallantly prosecute against the Church as being an example of their flawed guidance of society. And, what I am trying to point out is that it is probably the most reasonable approach to commisioning a crew to do what was only theoretically understood as possible - more than likely the crew cannot be tarnished with the heresay of tragic possibilities, and the infitiely flat world, or water fall edge, theory was the most efficient legend to maintain calm and order of the crew.

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
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24-04-2012, 03:27 PM
RE: Scientific Paradigms
the idea that people thought the earth was flat in columbus times is more of a myth than a fact, yes of course there were those who think it was, but I think sailors could have been the more educated people to understand the shape of the earth as they could actually see it (the horizon ans stuff) and as they travelled great distances and they observed things kept falling to the ground around the world they could easily observe that the world was a sphere.
The problem convincing people back then wasn't the shape of the earth, it was money, the actual ability to cross the ocean, and the fear of monster and unknown lands. The money problem was solved by the spanish crown, the ability to cross the ocean was solved by new ships (the caravels) and the fear of monsters was overcome by the promise of riches after the journey

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24-04-2012, 09:30 PM
RE: Scientific Paradigms
(24-04-2012 08:30 AM)TrainWreck Wrote:  
(22-04-2012 06:02 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Why the hell did you sign onboard then, brother? ...
Because, I was failing in my college pursuits, and I was confident that I would not be risking my life anymore in the Navy than my drunk driving practices in my failing life.

That was prudent and similar to my own call. Except I was driving a psyche at the time instead of a vehicle. Wink

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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25-04-2012, 06:18 AM
RE: Scientific Paradigms
I can respect that answer I suppose, but I thought we still did that? I mean, I do that in my research and we did that with the space programs.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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