Scientists believe that we may have had our beginnings in CLAY
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27-06-2016, 09:31 PM
Sad Scientists believe that we may have had our beginnings in CLAY
"All life on Earth may have come from clay according to new scientific research - just as the Bible, Koran and even Greek mythology have been suggesting for thousands of years.
The latest theory is that clay - which is at its most basic, a combination of minerals in the ground - acts as a breeding laboratory for tiny molecules and chemicals which it 'absorbs like a sponge'.
The process takes billions of years, during which the chemicals react to each other to form proteins, DNA and, eventually, living cells, scientists told the journal Scientific Reports.
Biological Engineers from Cornell University's department for Nanoscale Science in New York state believe clay 'might have been the birthplace of life on Earth'.
It is a theory dating back thousands of years in many cultures, though perhaps not using the same scientific explanation.
In religious texts from ancient Egypt to Chinese legends, God moulds clay into the shape of man and then breathes life into him through his nostrils.
Even Genesis talks of man being born from dust and returning to dust when he dies, with scholars translating this from the ancient Hebrew as also meaning clay or the earth itself.

Over billions of years, chemicals confined in those spaces could have carried out the complex reactions that formed proteins, DNA and eventually all the machinery that makes a living cell work.'
The conclusions are based on experiments by the researchers using synthetic hydrogels, adding DNA, amino acids and enzymes and simulating the production of proteins."

Lol is that even possible that science could justify "the clay story" Shocking
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27-06-2016, 09:41 PM
RE: Scientists believe that we may have had our beginnings in CLAY
(27-06-2016 09:31 PM)rosechaos Wrote:  "All life on Earth may have come from clay according to new scientific research - just as the Bible, Koran and even Greek mythology have been suggesting for thousands of years.
The latest theory is that clay - which is at its most basic, a combination of minerals in the ground - acts as a breeding laboratory for tiny molecules and chemicals which it 'absorbs like a sponge'.
The process takes billions of years, during which the chemicals react to each other to form proteins, DNA and, eventually, living cells, scientists told the journal Scientific Reports.
Biological Engineers from Cornell University's department for Nanoscale Science in New York state believe clay 'might have been the birthplace of life on Earth'.
It is a theory dating back thousands of years in many cultures, though perhaps not using the same scientific explanation.
In religious texts from ancient Egypt to Chinese legends, God moulds clay into the shape of man and then breathes life into him through his nostrils.
Even Genesis talks of man being born from dust and returning to dust when he dies, with scholars translating this from the ancient Hebrew as also meaning clay or the earth itself.

Over billions of years, chemicals confined in those spaces could have carried out the complex reactions that formed proteins, DNA and eventually all the machinery that makes a living cell work.'
The conclusions are based on experiments by the researchers using synthetic hydrogels, adding DNA, amino acids and enzymes and simulating the production of proteins."

Lol is that even possible that science could justify "the clay story" Shocking

No. Just no.

It bears absolutely no relation to the religious origin stories except the use of the word 'clay'.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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27-06-2016, 09:57 PM
RE: Scientists believe that we may have had our beginnings in CLAY
The scientific theory has been out for at least ten years now.

The religious claims aren't theories at all. Theories require testing, which they never got. Those myths also suffer the weakness of having zero evidence for the agent assumed to have done the fabrication.
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27-06-2016, 10:05 PM
RE: Scientists believe that we may have had our beginnings in CLAY
Why do you feel like these primitive and clearly syncretic narratives need to be justified? I hope you don't feel like you're required to be convinced of them or something, because that would seem like a very irrational, purposefully unattainable, and emotionally exploitative requirement for anyone to make of you.

If we came from dust, then why is there still dust?
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27-06-2016, 10:17 PM
RE: Scientists believe that we may have had our beginnings in CLAY
(27-06-2016 09:31 PM)rosechaos Wrote:  "All life on Earth may have come from clay according to new scientific research - just as the Bible, Koran and even Greek mythology have been suggesting for thousands of years.
The latest theory is that clay - which is at its most basic, a combination of minerals in the ground - acts as a breeding laboratory for tiny molecules and chemicals which it 'absorbs like a sponge'.
The process takes billions of years, during which the chemicals react to each other to form proteins, DNA and, eventually, living cells, scientists told the journal Scientific Reports.
Biological Engineers from Cornell University's department for Nanoscale Science in New York state believe clay 'might have been the birthplace of life on Earth'.
It is a theory dating back thousands of years in many cultures, though perhaps not using the same scientific explanation.
In religious texts from ancient Egypt to Chinese legends, God moulds clay into the shape of man and then breathes life into him through his nostrils.
Even Genesis talks of man being born from dust and returning to dust when he dies, with scholars translating this from the ancient Hebrew as also meaning clay or the earth itself.

Over billions of years, chemicals confined in those spaces could have carried out the complex reactions that formed proteins, DNA and eventually all the machinery that makes a living cell work.'
The conclusions are based on experiments by the researchers using synthetic hydrogels, adding DNA, amino acids and enzymes and simulating the production of proteins."

Lol is that even possible that science could justify "the clay story" Shocking

Clay and dirt were the building blocks the old religions understood. In an agricultural society life comes from the ground. You can sculpt clay, make little people models. Tells you something of the intellects involved.

They clay hypothesis of abiogenesis has been floating around for quite a while. One of many competitors. They are unlikely to have been anything like the clay that ancient potters would have been familiar with. Montmorillonite is the clay mineral that I saw cited in a quick-n-dirty search and your average potter wouldn't touch it with a cattle prod.

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28-06-2016, 12:24 AM
RE: Scientists believe that we may have had our beginnings in CLAY
the fact that some ancient book got someting (maybe!) right means nothing at all. If you make up lots of shit, you may once in a while get a "bullseye".

Religious books also have no theories in the scientific sense, but that has already been explained.

The bible even could have "predicted" the big bang, and i wouldnt be impressed. Because all these books are doing is making shit up with nothing to back up their wild ass assertions. So if some ancient writer was thinking of the big bang, while he couldnt possibly have had a good reason (because he couldnt have had the scientific knowledge), then he believed in the correct thing, but still for bad reasons. He was a fool.

It doesnt matter what you believe in but if you have good reasons to. Single results dont matter nearly as much as a good methodology.

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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28-06-2016, 01:49 AM (This post was last modified: 28-06-2016 10:40 AM by Thumpalumpacus.)
RE: Scientists believe that we may have had our beginnings in CLAY
Yes. Democritus was right, material substances are made up of individual pieces too tiny to be seen. He was wrong in thinking them indivisible and naming them after that "quality".

Was his point a "theory"? Not at all. It had no evidence, testing, or rationale behind it ... the same as the Biblical/Talmudic/Koranic "clay theory". A guess is not a theory. It might be the germ of the theory, but in the matter under discussion, it isn't, because no one ever pursued these assertions from holy books with testing.

Then some guy comes along on the Internet and says, "Hey, guys, we knew it all along." Well, no, you didn't. You guessed, and in so doing, got one word right, but the mechanism entirely wrong.

Color me unimpressed.
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28-06-2016, 02:00 PM (This post was last modified: 28-06-2016 02:14 PM by jennybee.)
RE: Scientists believe that we may have had our beginnings in CLAY
The idea of humans being created out of clay was not a new one. Genesis (where the "clay story" is found) was written around 1400 BCE and the Enuma Elish (Babylonian tale of creation, which many scholars believe Genesis is based on) was written around 1800 BCE. The Enuma Elish also mentions humans being created out of clay.

Marduk Creates the World from the Spoils of Battle

In the beginning, neither heaven nor earth had names. Apsu, the god of fresh waters, and Tiamat, the goddess of the salt oceans, and Mummu, the god of the mist that rises from both of them, were still mingled as one. There were no mountans, there was no pasture land, and not even a reed-marsh could be found to break the surface of the waters.

It was then that Apsu and Tiamat parented two gods, and then two more who outgrew the first pair. These further parented gods, until Ea, who was the god of rivers and was Tiamat and Apsu's geat-grandson, was born. Ea was the cleverest of the gods, and with his magic Ea became the most powerful of the gods, ruling even his forebears.

Apsu and Tiamat's descendents became an unruly crowd. Eventually Apsu, in his frustration and inability to sleep with the clamor, went to Tiamat, and he proposed to her that he slay their noisy offspring. Tiamat was furious at his suggestion to kill their clan, but after leaving her Apsu resolved to proceed with his murderous plan. When the young gods heard of his plot against them, they were silent and fearful, but soon Ea was hatching a scheme. He cast a spell on Apsu, pulled Apsu's crown from his head, and slew him. Ea then built his palace on Apsu's waters, and it was there that, with the goddess Damkina, he fathered Marduk, the four-eared, four-eyed giant who was god of the rains and storms.

The other gods, however, went to Tiamat and complained of how Ea had slain her husband. Aroused, she collected an army of dragons and monsters, and at its head she placed the god Kingu, whom she gave magical powers as well. Even Ea was at a loss how to combat such a host, until he finally called on his son Marduk. Marduk gladly agreed to take on his father's battle, on the condition that he, Marduk, would rule the gods after achieving this victory. The other gods agreed, and at a banquet they gave him his royal robes and scepter.

Marduk armed himself with a bow and arrows, a club, and lightning, and he went in search of Tiamat's monstrous army. Rolling his thunder and storms in front him, he attacked, and Kingu's battle plan soon disintegrated. Tiamat was left alone to fight Marduk, and she howled as they closed for battle. They struggled as Marduk caught her in his nets. When she opened her mouth to devour him, he filled it with the evil wind that served him. She could not close her mouth with his gale blasting in it, and he shot an arrow down her throat. It split her heart, and she was slain.

After subduing the rest of her host, he took his club and split Tiamat's water-laden body in half like a clam shell. Half he put in the sky and made the heavens, and he posted guards there to make sure that Tiamat's salt waters could not escape. Across the heavens he made stations in the stars for the gods, and he made the moon and set it forth on its schedule across the heavens. From the other half of Tiamat's body he made the land, which he placed over Apsu's fresh waters, which now arise in wells and springs. From her eyes he made flow the Tigirs and Euphrates. Across this land he made the grains and herbs, the pastures and fields, the rains and the seeds, the cows and ewes, and the forests and the orchards.

Marduk set the vanquished gods who had supported Tiamat to a variety of tasks, including work in the fields and canals. Soon they complained of their work, however, and they rebeled by burning their spades and baskets. Marduk saw a solution to their labors, though, and proposed it to Ea. He had Kingu, Timat's general, brought forward from the ranks of the defeated gods, and Kingu was slain. With Kingu's blood, with clay from the earth, and with spittle from the other gods, Ea and the birth-goddess Nintu created humans. On them Ea imposed the labor previously assigned to the gods. Thus the humans were set to maintain the canals and boundary ditches, to hoe and to carry, to irrigate the land and to raise crops, to raise animals and fill the granaries, and to worship the gods at their regular festivals.
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28-06-2016, 03:43 PM (This post was last modified: 28-06-2016 03:47 PM by Paleophyte.)
RE: Scientists believe that we may have had our beginnings in CLAY
What the Bible means when it talks about clay:

[Image: 6a00e55090f458883301901bc1ff5b970b-pi]

What scientists mean when they talk about clay:

[Image: 24888_102.png]

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28-06-2016, 03:52 PM
RE: Scientists believe that we may have had our beginnings in CLAY
This is also the same book that says bats are birds, demons cause disease, and has talking donkeys. Even if it were true, it still got WAY more wrong. Way to ignore the misses.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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