Scientists believe that we may have had our beginnings in CLAY
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28-06-2016, 03:53 PM
RE: Scientists believe that we may have had our beginnings in CLAY
I hate this bullshit. The ancient Greeks had the word "atom" back then, but all it meant back then was "really small to the point of being indivisible". They had no clue back then what a proton, neutron or electron were. Nor would the use of the word "atom" back then mean their polytheistic gods were real.

Every religion pulls this shit, debate enough Hindus they will point to the Vedas and Baghavad Gita too.

No religion of antiquity had any modern scientific understanding of reality back then.

Poetry by Brian37(poems by an atheist) Also on Facebook as BrianJames Rational Poet and Twitter Brianrrs37
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28-06-2016, 05:50 PM
RE: Scientists believe that we may have had our beginnings in CLAY
(28-06-2016 03:53 PM)Brian37 Wrote:  I hate this bullshit. The ancient Greeks had the word "atom" back then, but all it meant back then was "really small to the point of being indivisible".

Actually the Greek concept of atomos was surpisingly advanced for its time. You're right, nothing like we have now but then you don't really expect the golden era Greeks to have quantum chromodynamics down.

What's interesting is that the Greeks had a lot of scientific information. Some of it was wrong but some was right. The Egyptians, Babylonians, Sumerians and a host of other civilizations had their own science and technology. Yet none of what was available back then even shows up in the Bible or other scriptures. Never mind today's science, they couldn't even manage to include 500 BCE's science.

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28-06-2016, 06:59 PM
RE: Scientists believe that we may have had our beginnings in CLAY
Most religions haven't progressed past Aristotle. His "theory" that objects fall fast due to their "affinity" for the earth would have been toast, if he had dropped a flat sheet of papyrus, then crumpled it and dropped it again. But "experiments" were not de rigeur at that time; setting science back centuries, and giving the religious ammunition for all that they did to keep the populace under their heel.
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28-06-2016, 07:05 PM
RE: Scientists believe that we may have had our beginnings in CLAY
(28-06-2016 03:52 PM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  This is also the same book that says bats are birds, demons cause disease, and has talking donkeys. Even if it were true, it still got WAY more wrong. Way to ignore the misses.

And the world has four corners etc...
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28-06-2016, 07:05 PM
RE: Scientists believe that we may have had our beginnings in CLAY
This entire thread has it's beginnings -----

In the rectum of a bovine quadruped............

.......................................

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28-06-2016, 07:10 PM
RE: Scientists believe that we may have had our beginnings in CLAY
Pardon me while I spam up the thread with my musings, but some may find it interesting if they haven't read it yet..

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid828631

Creation Myths
It has always amused me to consider the vast number of diversely different creation myths. There is no way I could capture them all in a forum post, but perhaps someday when I am bored I would like to write a book comparing and contrasting them all. For all I know there may be already an exhaustive number of books doing this very thing, I have not bothered to even Google the subject. Anyway, I will endeavor to cover the different types, and provide a couple of examples.

A creation myth is a symbolic story that merges indigenous cultural history, and sometimes contain a smattering of historical events that have been passed down through oral tradition. Analysis of creation myths usually reflect a unique worldview and contain a framework that places this group of believers in a universal context. There are five major classifications of creation myths. Let’s go through them briefly:

Ex Nihilo

This is Latin for “out of nothing” and is a common type of mythical creation. This can be found in religions from ancient Egypt, the Bible, the Quran, the Rig Veda (1700-1100 BCE ancient Indian texts leading to Hinduism), and a plethora of animistic (worldview that animals, plants, and inanimate objects possess a spiritual essence) religious cultures found in Africa, Asia, and North America. Ancient third millennium (3000 – 2100 BCE) Sumerian Mesopotamian creation myths were extremely complex and includes seven different “disputations” (formal debates). These deeply philosophical disputations address humanity’s place in the world. One of the most popular of these disputations was the debate between sheep and grain (Black, Cunningham, Robson & Zolyomi, 1998).

Quintessentially, these ex nihilo creation myths can sometimes blur the line between creation ex nihilo (from nothing) and creation from chaos. In ex nihilo type creation myths the very substance of creation springs from within the creator.

Creation from chaos

In these myth creations, there is nothing but a shapeless, formless expanse. This expanse contains the material with which the created world will be made. This expanse is like a vapor, or water, dimensionless, and the very definition of disorder. The act of creation is a promulgation of order from disorder. It is intriguing that this world perspective usually believes that at some point order will degenerate back into this disorder at some point.

World parent

In these myth creations, there are a set of parents for the world. One version of this describes the primeval state as an eternal union of two parents, and the creation takes place when the two are pulled apart. Commonly, the two parents are identified as sky (male) and earth (female) who were so tightly bound to each other that no offspring could emerge. Another form of world parent creationism is that creation sprung from the dismembered parts of the body of the primeval being. Usually the limbs, hair, blood, organs, etc. are somehow severed or sacrificed and become sky, Earth, animal or plant life, and other worldly features. An example of world parents mythology can be found in Maori(New Zealamd) mythology (Biggs, 1966).

Emergence

In these myth creations humanity emerges from another world into this one. The previous world is viewed as the womb for the earth mother, and the act of emergence was like the birth of humanity. These are generally found in Native American cultures where the myths correlate the emergence of people from a hole in the underworld. An example of this can be found in the Pueblo peoples. Their “temple”or room from which they practice their religious rituals was called a Kiva, and there would normally be a small round hole in the floor representing the portal through which the ancestors first emerge from the underworld (Vivian, Gordon, Reiter, & Paul, 1965).

Earth-diver

In these myth creations a supreme being usually sends an animal into the primal waters to find bits of sand from which to build habitable land. This focuses on the beginnings emanating from the depths. These are also common in Native American folklore, and found amongst the Chukchi (Russian indigenous people residing along the shores of the Chukchi Sea), Yukaghir (Russian indigenous people living in East Siberia), Tatars (Old Turkic people living in Asia and Europe who were one of five major tribal confederations and the Mongolian Plateau in the 12th century) and several Finno-Ugrian (ancient Hungarian mythology) traditions. The earth-diver is the first of them to awaken and lay the necessary groundwork by building suitable lands so that the coming creation web a place to live. For example the ancient Finnic mythology had an emphasis on astronomy, and it’s creation myth involved a world egg and a world pillar.

one of my favorite creation stories

Pima Creation story.

These Native American Indians lived in the Arizona desert along the Gila and Salt rivers and were named “Pima” in the 15th century by the Spanish, who later recorded their stories. Here is their creation story:

In the beginning there was no earth, no water – nothing. There was only a Person, Juhwert-a-Mah-kai, “The Doctor of the Earth.”

He just floated, for there was no place for him to stand upon. There was no sun, no light, and he just floated about in the darkness, which was Darkness itself.

He wandered around in the nowhere till he thought he had wandered enough. Then he rubbed on his breast and rubbed out moah-haht-tack, that is, perspiration, or “greasy earth.” This he rubbed out on the palm of his hand and held out. It tipped over three times, but the fourth time it stayed straight in the middle of the air and there it remains now as the world.

The first bush he created was the greasewood bush.

And he made ants, little tiny ants, to live on that bush, on its gum which comes out of its stem.

But these little ants did not do any good, so he created white ants, and these worked and enlarged the earth, and they kept on increasing it, larger and larger until it at last was big enough for himself to rest upon.

Then he created a Person. He made him out of his eye, out of the shadow of his eyes, to assist him, to be like him, and to help him in creating trees and human beings and everything that was to be on the earth.

The name of this being was Noo-ee – the buzzard.

Noo-ee was given all power, but he did not do the work he was created for. He did not care to help Juh-wert-a-Mah-kai, but let him go by himself.

And so The Doctor of the Earth himself created the mountains and everything that has seed and is good to eat. For if he had created human beings first they would have had nothing to live on.
……………………………………..
Isn’t mythology fun?

References:

Biggs, B. B. (1966). Maori Myths and Traditions. Encyclopaedia of New Zealand, 3 Volumes. (Government Printer: Wellington). Print.

Black, J.A., Cunningham, G., Robson, E., and Zólyomi, G. (1998). The debate between sheep and grain, The Electronic Text Corpus of Sumerian Literature, Oxford. Print.

Vivian, Gordon; Reiter, Paul (1965), The great kivas of Chaco Canyon and their relationships. University of New Mexico Press. Print.

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"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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28-06-2016, 08:06 PM
RE: Scientists believe that we may have had our beginnings in CLAY
(27-06-2016 09:31 PM)rosechaos Wrote:  "All life on Earth may have come from clay according to new scientific research - just as the Bible, Koran and even Greek mythology have been suggesting for thousands of years.
The latest theory is that clay - which is at its most basic, a combination of minerals in the ground - acts as a breeding laboratory for tiny molecules and chemicals which it 'absorbs like a sponge'.
The process takes billions of years, during which the chemicals react to each other to form proteins, DNA and, eventually, living cells, scientists told the journal Scientific Reports.
Biological Engineers from Cornell University's department for Nanoscale Science in New York state believe clay 'might have been the birthplace of life on Earth'.
It is a theory dating back thousands of years in many cultures, though perhaps not using the same scientific explanation.
In religious texts from ancient Egypt to Chinese legends, God moulds clay into the shape of man and then breathes life into him through his nostrils.
Even Genesis talks of man being born from dust and returning to dust when he dies, with scholars translating this from the ancient Hebrew as also meaning clay or the earth itself.

Over billions of years, chemicals confined in those spaces could have carried out the complex reactions that formed proteins, DNA and eventually all the machinery that makes a living cell work.'
The conclusions are based on experiments by the researchers using synthetic hydrogels, adding DNA, amino acids and enzymes and simulating the production of proteins."

Lol is that even possible that science could justify "the clay story" Shocking

No. Impossible. Semi-permeable phospho-lipid cell membranes required a water, or a liquid environment.

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28-06-2016, 08:50 PM
RE: Scientists believe that we may have had our beginnings in CLAY
yeah you are all right but when i googled i didn't find many researches justifying this theory only religious sites lol Big Grin (smart ass i know)

this pic i found how they try to explain stuff Hobo
i dunno really what but does it make sense at all ?

"When the human body is examined today, it may be discovered that many elements present on the earth are also to be found in the body. Living tissues contain 95% carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, phosphorus and sulphur, with a total of 26 different elements.91"

[Image: Capture.png]photo uploading
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28-06-2016, 08:57 PM
RE: Scientists believe that we may have had our beginnings in CLAY
(28-06-2016 08:50 PM)rosechaos Wrote:  yeah you are all right but when i googled i didn't find many researches justifying this theory only religious sites lol Big Grin (smart ass i know)

this pic i found how they try to explain stuff Hobo
i dunno really what but does it make sense at all ?

"When the human body is examined today, it may be discovered that many elements present on the earth are also to be found in the body. Living tissues contain 95% carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, phosphorus and sulphur, with a total of 26 different elements.91"

[Image: Capture.png]photo uploading

I am not a scientician, but doesn't it make sense that a lot of similar elements are found in the human body and the earth? I mean, we like live here...we eat food grown in the soil or fed from things grown in the soil. Our water contains elements from the earth...wutamImissinhere?

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28-06-2016, 09:17 PM
RE: Scientists believe that we may have had our beginnings in CLAY
(28-06-2016 08:50 PM)rosechaos Wrote:  yeah you are all right but when i googled i didn't find many researches justifying this theory only religious sites lol Big Grin (smart ass i know)

There is some genuine research in this field. Sadly most of it is behind pay walls. Here's one that I dug up: Formation of RNA oligonucleotides over the mineral surface preliminary irradiated with UV light.

Quote:"When the human body is examined today, it may be discovered that many elements present on the earth are also to be found in the body.

That's a bunch of woo. Strictly speaking, every element found on Earth is present in your body. You just need to look at very low concentrations. No big surprise there since everything you eat, drink and breathe comes from the Earth directly or indirectly.

More interestingly, look at the conentrations.

Humans (and most living organisms): Dominantly carbon, oxygen, nitrogen and hydrogen with smaller amounts of sulfur and phosphorous. Traces of everything else, much of which is vital but present in concentrations of a few parts per million.

Planet Earth: Iron, Oxygen, Silicon, Magnesium, Nickel with smaller quantities of aluminum, calcium, sodium and traces of all the rest.

So as far as major constituents go, we have only oxyge in common with the bulk composition of the planet.

---
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