Scientology Exposes Psychiatry?
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26-08-2012, 04:08 PM (This post was last modified: 27-08-2012 07:21 AM by Atheist Jesus.)
Scientology Exposes Psychiatry?
Apparently Scientologists are extremely skeptical of psychiatry. They even made a documentary about it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4vD4QC0kQ8

What are you guy's thoughts on a false religion going up against psychiatry? About the psychiatric industry in general?

Personally, I like to keep positive and believe that the industry isn't full of greedy bastards just looking to squeeze every last penny from the general public. I'd like to think that some people within psychiatry are genuinely concerned about the mental health of their patients.

"If we crave some cosmic purpose, then let us find ourselves a worthy goal." - Carl Sagan
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26-08-2012, 04:41 PM
RE: Scientology Exposes Psychiatry?
I'm sure there is various attacks you can pull on psychiatry that are valid. It's not anything close to an exact study and has a lot of various ideas.

However, I don't think a thing about Scientology trying to attack it. Of course they would to demonstrate their idea.

There's nothing within your brain that is affecting your moods/thoughts/feelings you dislike, it's all those extra souls attached to the body you need to spiritually cut off!Evil_monster

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26-08-2012, 04:54 PM
RE: Scientology Exposes Psychiatry?
(26-08-2012 04:08 PM)Atheist Jesus Wrote:  ... false religion (oxymoron) ...

Is it? I thought it was a tautology

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26-08-2012, 05:00 PM
RE: Scientology Exposes Psychiatry?
OK, that's way too long to watch. And really, I can't be too impartial (had things gone different--I would've been a psychiatrist). Even psychologists, books, despite all the studies and research, they say it's not a science in the sense of cut-and-dry results. It's statistical probability, experience, and general feels for things for diagnosis. At one time, psychiatrists would prescribe a placebo first (or when saying "hmm, that didn't work, let's try this"), just to see if it helps and it's "all in the head" so to speak.

One of the big issues with psychology/psychiatry is that the disorders overlap--there were two that we discussed in a class (can't remember which offhand), that had a list of around 20 symptoms each, only a few were different. Of the few, they were not "these always show" symptoms. If all of the "may or may not happen" symptoms didn't happen, the problem could be even more disorders. The catch is, the treatment for the different disorders is different. Many of the psychology-based places (social services and the like) opt for counselling over anything as it is (financial, talking, groups, whatever). Other meds for depression and such are prescribed by regular doctors, what seems to be at least, more than a psychologist. My mother has a drug for anxiety prescribed by her heart doctor!

Some in the (just going to type "psych" now) psych field prescribe medications, or other "meds", based on what the medications do and how it alters the body's functioning. There's an entire field of psych people who are more researchers with medications and functioning. For example, they're in lab coats, experimenting with drugs to see how they alter the body, check the ways it alters the brain, and then figures out what disorders could be assisted by them.

One of my friends was seeing a psychiatrist (granted an abusive boyfriend, being gang raped, multiple suicide attempts, uncle molesting her.... well let's just say it wasn't to be unexpected, especially on her third suicide attempt, resulting in a hospital trip, with two in two days). Anyway, the psych department evaluated her, and gave her one diagnosis (borderline personality disorder), she said they were crazy (she had most of the signs) and found another psych person who gave her another diagnosis (bipolar) with massive depression. Given her, either could work--she just shopped around until she got the diagnosis she thought was right. The best pill that worked for her? A placebo. Her mother also let her move back home to look after her, and her life becoming more stable too, and she had therapy.


The one catch is psych fields with patients is this: if your patients are "crazy" they may tell you what they think you want to hear, or a number of other things, any of which makes it harder to diagnose the problem. Imagine diagnosing a person who's actual disorder is one where they try to please everyone. The person tells the psych people what they want to hear, it may take a while for them to see through it to get the "real" person. I can't remember from where, but someplace during my psych classes they said that a few sessions (sometimes lasting months) are needed just to see through the person's charade and get to the real issues. It's not they want to last that long, sometimes they need to. The psych people can deal with manipulative people. Sometimes the psych people screw up--so do doctors (I had a MD say I didn't like school and pain was all in my head--my appendix was inflamed and it ruptured before they had an official diagnosis of the problem--and I had pinched nerves in the area too from a prior surgery).

I had a doctor refer me to psych people because I didn't sleep well--the psych people were a corporation-based place, and they were focused on money and it showed. They said I was a drug and sex obsessed teenager who was highly manipulative and would commit suicide within 24 hours. Basically "play on the fears of the parents", they knew it was a lie because I was home when I wasn't at school functions, and I arrived home within 5 minutes of school letting out. The MD never asked about my home condition, nor did the psych people. If they had, they would have found out that all the people in my family are "night owls", and my father worked swing shifts, and more often than not worked in a way that I would be up late, or disturbed, so I wouldn't sleep well--my parents knew because they were up too!
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26-08-2012, 06:11 PM
RE: Scientology Exposes Psychiatry?
(26-08-2012 04:54 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(26-08-2012 04:08 PM)Atheist Jesus Wrote:  ... false religion (oxymoron) ...

Is it? I thought it was a tautology

Shoot! I mixed up my words. Yes, you are right.

(26-08-2012 05:00 PM)elemts Wrote:  One of the big issues with psychology/psychiatry is that the disorders overlap--there were two that we discussed in a class (can't remember which offhand), that had a list of around 20 symptoms each, only a few were different. Of the few, they were not "these always show" symptoms. If all of the "may or may not happen" symptoms didn't happen, the problem could be even more disorders.

Yeah that's one of the things I agree with. Back when I was taking an Abnormal Psychology course I heard about the DSM-4 and I thought the idea of it was great. What could be better than a manual with all the psychological disorders and symptoms? But then I learned that diagnosing a person isn't always accurate. I don't remember in which of my psychology classes I heard about it, I think it was either Abnormal Psychology or Research Methods, where the professor talked about an experiment where a researcher made his accomplices go to an institution and fake a disorder. I don't remember the entire facts correctly, but the doctors and psychiatrists could not spot out the real one from the fakes and that even the real mentally disturbed patients noticed that these accomplices were BSing. I've also heard that the new DSM-5, to be released sometime next year, scored low on reliability in some of it's categories, that is, psychologists and psychiatrists examining the people with the exact same symptoms diagnosed them differently.

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26-08-2012, 06:29 PM
RE: Scientology Exposes Psychiatry?
(26-08-2012 06:11 PM)Atheist Jesus Wrote:  
(26-08-2012 05:00 PM)elemts Wrote:  One of the big issues with psychology/psychiatry is that the disorders overlap--there were two that we discussed in a class (can't remember which offhand), that had a list of around 20 symptoms each, only a few were different. Of the few, they were not "these always show" symptoms. If all of the "may or may not happen" symptoms didn't happen, the problem could be even more disorders.

Yeah that's one of the things I agree with. Back when I was taking an Abnormal Psychology course I heard about the DSM-4 and I thought the idea of it was great. What could be better than a manual with all the psychological disorders and symptoms? But then I learned that diagnosing a person isn't always accurate. I don't remember in which of my psychology classes I heard about it, I think it was either Abnormal Psychology or Research Methods, where the professor talked about an experiment where a researcher made his accomplices go to an institution and fake a disorder. I don't remember the entire facts correctly, but the doctors and psychiatrists could not spot out the real one from the fakes and that even the real mentally disturbed patients noticed that these accomplices were BSing. I've also heard that the new DSM-5, to be released sometime next year, scored low on reliability in some of it's categories, that is, psychologists and psychiatrists examining the people with the exact same symptoms diagnosed them differently.


I believe I heard of the same study.... which put it in probably one of the same classes you mentioned too. Can't remember which though. Although it was also said to never read the DSM--you'll swear you have all the disorders. I had one instructor/psychologist say that most to all people have a mental disorder, most people just deal with it fine on their own--others just decide to seek help.

Of course it's not just in psych based things either. One disorder (medical) I have is a standalone disorder..... and all the symptoms of it are also warning symptoms of Parkinson's, and Parkinson's is a potential "stage" of it. Basically it makes a disorder also a symptom, it can stand alone, or be part of something bigger.
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26-08-2012, 06:46 PM
RE: Scientology Exposes Psychiatry?
(26-08-2012 06:29 PM)elemts Wrote:  Of course it's not just in psych based things either. One disorder (medical) I have is a standalone disorder..... and all the symptoms of it are also warning symptoms of Parkinson's, and Parkinson's is a potential "stage" of it. Basically it makes a disorder also a symptom, it can stand alone, or be part of something bigger.

That's one of the strangest things I've heard. But yeah, it's not only psych based things. And part of the problem is that some disorders have spectrums which same some of the symptoms that may or may not require different medications through the different stages. The thing that really annoys me of these conspiracy theorists, like in the video I talked about, is that they point the finger and say that all psychiatrists are corrupt because they diagnose the same symptoms with different disorders, which isn't always the psychiatrists choice, merely a fallibility in the diagnosing process.

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26-08-2012, 07:30 PM
RE: Scientology Exposes Psychiatry?
Well, I guess if psychiatry can undo someones brainwashing so they don't think they need thetan clearing, then someone should produce videos against psychiatry to make sure its minions don't partake.

Mental illness is real- like physical real-, and psychiatry is a doctorate of this field to help mental health.
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26-08-2012, 11:17 PM
RE: Scientology Exposes Psychiatry?
There are those within the medical profession who are only in it for the money and do try to take their patients for a ride. I've had the misfortune of meeting a few of them in my time. But, I do believe that most of the people who are in the medical field are there because they honestly do want to help people get better.

The human brain and mind are very difficult things to understand, so I know a psychiatrist has a lot on their plate with the patients they treat. My mother, for example, is seeing a new psychiatrist. She was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia in the late 70's and has received treatment for that up to now. This new doctor doesn't think she's schizophrenic and has diagnosed her with bi-polar disorder and general psychosis, which I don't believe is accurate, but I'm gonna wait and see. Maybe she's right. Maybe she's not. It's really difficult to tell, because the symptoms overlap so much with other mental illnesses. That is not an easy career path and I don't envy anybody whose job it is to deal with somebody like my mom!

As for why Scientologists don't like psychiatrists, I'm gonna go with what Lady Jane said. They can probably undo the brainwashing that Scientology inflicts on its members, so they'd definitely want to scare their people away from it to make sure they don't lose them... and their money.
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26-08-2012, 11:51 PM (This post was last modified: 26-08-2012 11:55 PM by LadyJane.)
RE: Scientology Exposes Psychiatry?
(26-08-2012 06:11 PM)Atheist Jesus Wrote:  
(26-08-2012 04:54 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Is it? I thought it was a tautology

Shoot! I mixed up my words. Yes, you are right.

(26-08-2012 05:00 PM)elemts Wrote:  One of the big issues with psychology/psychiatry is that the disorders overlap--there were two that we discussed in a class (can't remember which offhand), that had a list of around 20 symptoms each, only a few were different. Of the few, they were not "these always show" symptoms. If all of the "may or may not happen" symptoms didn't happen, the problem could be even more disorders.

Yeah that's one of the things I agree with. Back when I was taking an Abnormal Psychology course I heard about the DSM-4 and I thought the idea of it was great. What could be better than a manual with all the psychological disorders and symptoms? But then I learned that diagnosing a person isn't always accurate. I don't remember in which of my psychology classes I heard about it, I think it was either Abnormal Psychology or Research Methods, where the professor talked about an experiment where a researcher made his accomplices go to an institution and fake a disorder. I don't remember the entire facts correctly, but the doctors and psychiatrists could not spot out the real one from the fakes and that even the real mentally disturbed patients noticed that these accomplices were BSing. I've also heard that the new DSM-5, to be released sometime next year, scored low on reliability in some of it's categories, that is, psychologists and psychiatrists examining the people with the exact same symptoms diagnosed them differently.

I think this illustrates exactly the difficulty and difference between this field of study and the other fields. In other sects of medicine- radiology, neurology, surgical, diagnosis, etc- there are numbers and absolutes to work with. It's a matter of adding them all up to see what box is best to solve the medical issue.

With mental health, there is so very little known as far as how the brain is organized and functioning. We have come leaps and bounds compared to a few decades ago, but we are still very much in the primitive stages of knowing what is going on.

Which leads us to what our psychologists and psychiatrists have to work with, which is simply the symptoms. And the symptoms can be sooo similar in several diagnosis. I would be very skeptical to go to one doctor and get a major diagnosis. I would shop around and get a majority diagnosis if I was in the position to find out what mental illness I have (if I presented symptoms).

My husband has bi-polar disorder, and I took him into the hospital during an episode. My uncle is a doctor at this hospital. He is not in this unit, he is in a completely different field, but he made sure a panel of doctors sat to meet, and he sat in on the panel, too. They all agreed unanimously and my husband has had very successful treatment since then. I wish all people had this opportunity, to have several experts conclude a diagnosis, not just one.

My sister-in-law is not so lucky. She married a fuckhead loser who refused to bring her in when she was manic- like extreme off the wall crazy manic- and his super religious family decided to lock her away (which isn't even illegal Sad ) to give her herbs to help her and to start a prayer chain. Yeah, that didn't go over so well. After 4 repeat episodes over the course of two years, they finally brought her in. She has had three different diagnosis and we (the family on her side) still don't know the truth. I suspect bipolar like her brother, but she was also given schizophrenia and borderline personality. She has a very tough time adjusting to regular life and gets overwhelmed very easily. I feel like I never got to know her because she has never been 'herself'.

So, I think this field has a long way to go. Neurology needs to step up to balance the physical side of the brain and the way it functions, or we will always be basing things on symptoms instead of the root cause.
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