Scientology and Respect for Religious Belief
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10-04-2012, 02:03 AM (This post was last modified: 10-04-2012 02:07 AM by Mr Woof.)
RE: Scientology and Respect for Religious Belief
(10-04-2012 01:45 AM)Thomas Wrote:  Follow up: This was not a hypothetical. This story came up in a political philosophy discussion group where one of the members wife was the one who was told "not to treat" the patient. He could have easily been saved. She was devastated. Of the 15 people in the group 8 agreed that the hospital should have honored the patients religious rights under religious freedom.
I strongly disagreed, even to the point of being fired from the hospital. I believe strongly if we are commited to free thinking we should be committed to action. It's not enough to just talk the talk. We have to dismiss this delusional nonsense of religious freedom. We have to treat all religion like a mental disease when it leads to self harm. We would not let a mentally incompacitated patient refuse medical treatment. So should we not the religiously incompacitated.
(10-04-2012 01:45 AM)Thomas Wrote:  I agree with your position; I was not aware that Scientologists were into this sort of stuff.
(10-04-2012 01:45 AM)Thomas Wrote:  Jehovah's' witnesses do, or used to, refuse blood transfers for themselves as well as their children. I recall this wish being overturned at least once in Melbourne.
[quote='Thomas' pid=

I have a living will which indicates that no excessive measures be taken to keep me alive, under expressed circumstances. I don't think it holds much weight however, especially if one ends up in a Catholic hospital.
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10-04-2012, 02:26 AM (This post was last modified: 10-04-2012 02:32 AM by Thomas.)
RE: Scientology and Respect for Religious Belief
(10-04-2012 02:03 AM)Mr Woof Wrote:  I have a living will which indicates that no excessive measures be taken to keep me alive, under expressed circumstances. I don't think it holds much weight however, especially if one ends up in a Catholic hospital.

Have your DNR signed by your next of kin and it will be more powerful. Letting them know your intensions in writing is a good thing.
The DNR is a common sense measure so not to end up in a comma for 10 years draining the family resources.
Some try to link this to be the same as religious belief. It expressly is not. A DNR is not based on what you think a deity wants you to do. It is what you want to do based on rational forethought.

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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10-04-2012, 03:40 AM
RE: Scientology and Respect for Religious Belief
I think it's a lose, lose situation either way. But you can't violate people's rights regardless of how rediculous their religious beliefs are.
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10-04-2012, 04:27 AM
RE: Scientology and Respect for Religious Belief
as long as it doesn't harm others let them do whatever they want, it's not illegal to commit suicide.

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10-04-2012, 06:36 AM
RE: Scientology and Respect for Religious Belief
Religion is irrational and illogical thought and does not deserve respect. It's a cult thing and it needs to be stopped. A DNR is generally in place for someone that knows they are dieing and if they were to be resuscitated it would mean tubes down the throat and hooked to machines just to last a little while longer.

I would have saved the man, the tag around his neck would need to be some legal binding document before I followed it.

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10-04-2012, 07:15 AM (This post was last modified: 10-04-2012 07:20 AM by Malleus.)
RE: Scientology and Respect for Religious Belief
(10-04-2012 06:36 AM)Clint Barnett Wrote:  Religion is irrational and illogical thought and does not deserve respect. It's a cult thing and it needs to be stopped. A DNR is generally in place for someone that knows they are dieing and if they were to be resuscitated it would mean tubes down the throat and hooked to machines just to last a little while longer.

I would have saved the man, the tag around his neck would need to be some legal binding document before I followed it.
Do you mean to say that you would want to get sued and risk your license just to help-rape a moron? Helping somebody against their will is not a good deed. It's wrong. Why would you risk your career, your life and the lives of people you will be able to save by keeping your practice, just to save an ungrateful prick who disrespects you, your education and everything you stand for?

And who is this guy anyway? Doesn't he happen to take a part in a life-wrecking cult? Isn't he a member of a group whose general practice is to discredit any person who criticizes their views by ganging up on that person and calling them a rapist, pedophile, murderer and/or thief? They harass people who oppose them, they are known to follow their opponents around in a threatening manner, they do everything in their power to destroy that person's reputation and, if possible, life too. Just for saying their opinion and for asking questions. Fuck scientology and, in this case, I will include their community too because they are a big part of the problem. Fuck them too.

Now, one of them dies as a result of their own horrible ideology. All I have to say is that natural selection is a beautiful thing. I just hope that it will happen more often. If I were that guy's doctor and, despite my not doing anything to save him, he still survived, I would be disappointed, not glad. In fact, If I could have it my way, the second I saw his tag, I wouldn't even carry him to a hospital. I'd call a waste management crew to scrape him off the pavement so that the rest of the people can get on with their day.

If another person caused the accident, they are guilty of causing a traffic accident, but if the victim was alive and possible to save when the doctor arrived, the guilty driver will not be charged with manslaughter.

Oh, no Hallucinations 4:11 says the 'gilded sheep should be stewed in rat blood' but Morons 5:16 contradicts it. (Chas)

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10-04-2012, 07:23 AM
RE: Scientology and Respect for Religious Belief
He is an adult, he can make his own choices. If he wants to die, that's his business.

Now kids cannot make that choice yet, and their life should not be taken because the parents are idiots.

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10-04-2012, 07:24 AM
RE: Scientology and Respect for Religious Belief
(10-04-2012 07:15 AM)Malleus Wrote:  
(10-04-2012 06:36 AM)Clint Barnett Wrote:  Religion is irrational and illogical thought and does not deserve respect. It's a cult thing and it needs to be stopped. A DNR is generally in place for someone that knows they are dieing and if they were to be resuscitated it would mean tubes down the throat and hooked to machines just to last a little while longer.

I would have saved the man, the tag around his neck would need to be some legal binding document before I followed it.
Do you mean to say that you would want to get sued and risk your license just to help-rape a moron? Helping somebody against their will is not a good deed. It's wrong. Why would you risk your career, your life and the lives of people you will be able to save by keeping your practice, just to save an ungrateful prick who disrespects you, your education and everything you stand for?

And who is this guy anyway? Doesn't he happen to take a part in a life-wrecking cult? Isn't he a member of a group whose general practice is to discredit any person who criticizes their views by ganging up on that person and calling them a rapist, pedophile, murderer and/or thief? They harass people who oppose them, they are known to follow their opponents around in a threatening manner, they do everything in their power to destroy that person's reputation and, if possible, life too. Just for saying their opinion and for asking questions. Fuck scientology and, in this case, I will include their community too because they are a big part of the problem. Fuck them too.

Now, one of them dies as a result of their own horrible ideology. All I have to say is that natural selection is a beautiful thing. I just hope that it will happen more often. If I were that guy's doctor and, despite my not doing anything to save him, he still survived, I would be disappointed, not glad. In fact, If I could have it my way, the second I saw his tag, I wouldn't even carry him to a hospital. I'd call a waste management crew to scrape him off the pavement so that the rest of the people can get on with their day.

If another person caused the accident, they are guilty of causing a traffic accident, but if the victim was alive and possible to save when the doctor arrived, the guilty driver will not be charged with manslaughter.
You seemed to have missed one thing I said:
Quote:I would have saved the man, the tag around his neck would need to be some legal binding document before I followed it.

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— idiot adjective
See Republican Candidates.

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10-04-2012, 07:28 AM
RE: Scientology and Respect for Religious Belief
If I want to kill myself (assuming i've made that decision while being capable of rational thought) then I want others to respect that. We can't possibly issue a blanket generalization that all scientologists are off their rocker even though they probably are. So I think the right decision is to let them die. I really really hope that children who have grown up in scientologist households don't wear those same things. That's where I draw the line.
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10-04-2012, 10:53 AM
RE: Scientology and Respect for Religious Belief
(10-04-2012 07:24 AM)Clint Barnett Wrote:  
(10-04-2012 07:15 AM)Malleus Wrote:  Do you mean to say that you would want to get sued and risk your license just to help-rape a moron? Helping somebody against their will is not a good deed. It's wrong. Why would you risk your career, your life and the lives of people you will be able to save by keeping your practice, just to save an ungrateful prick who disrespects you, your education and everything you stand for?

And who is this guy anyway? Doesn't he happen to take a part in a life-wrecking cult? Isn't he a member of a group whose general practice is to discredit any person who criticizes their views by ganging up on that person and calling them a rapist, pedophile, murderer and/or thief? They harass people who oppose them, they are known to follow their opponents around in a threatening manner, they do everything in their power to destroy that person's reputation and, if possible, life too. Just for saying their opinion and for asking questions. Fuck scientology and, in this case, I will include their community too because they are a big part of the problem. Fuck them too.

Now, one of them dies as a result of their own horrible ideology. All I have to say is that natural selection is a beautiful thing. I just hope that it will happen more often. If I were that guy's doctor and, despite my not doing anything to save him, he still survived, I would be disappointed, not glad. In fact, If I could have it my way, the second I saw his tag, I wouldn't even carry him to a hospital. I'd call a waste management crew to scrape him off the pavement so that the rest of the people can get on with their day.

If another person caused the accident, they are guilty of causing a traffic accident, but if the victim was alive and possible to save when the doctor arrived, the guilty driver will not be charged with manslaughter.
You seemed to have missed one thing I said:
Quote:I would have saved the man, the tag around his neck would need to be some legal binding document before I followed it.
I am pretty sure that you're missing the point of the world we live in. When a burglar breaks into your house through your bathroom window, falls on the floor, gets hurt, sues you for not making your bathroom window safer and more accessible AND wins, I'm pretty sure that an idiot's explicit expression of will is going to be considered legally binding, even if it doesn't have a notary seal. He was wearing that shit in the same place where doctors always look for information about allergies and previous conditions. A doctor can definitely not afford to ignore those, so your decision to ignore the note in this case gives them sufficient grounds for suing you for everything you have.

Definitely not worth it and, as I said, I am very happy to let them die. I will attack their decision to do the same to their child, but I have no objections when an adult tries to win a Darwin award.

Oh, no Hallucinations 4:11 says the 'gilded sheep should be stewed in rat blood' but Morons 5:16 contradicts it. (Chas)

I would never shake a baby unless the recipe requires it.
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