Scoffers
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11-11-2014, 07:33 AM
RE: Scoffers
(11-11-2014 02:06 AM)Nintentacle Wrote:  
(10-11-2014 10:57 PM)pablo Wrote:  The bible proves itself wrong.
It actually goes through a problem.

Instead of verse - Interpretation - to verse - Interpretation - No contradictions, many times it goes from Verse - Misinterpretation - Verse - Misinterpretation - Supposed Contradiction.

Pi doesn't equal three.

The only two ways to "resolve" that is to either
  • Say "Who cares? They were rounding!" (in which case, why not round the circumference to 31 or 32 instead of 30?), or
  • Say that the handbredth used to measure the diameter and circumference were measured using two different hands (in which case, why does the infallible Bible use imperfect measurement systems?)
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11-11-2014, 07:34 AM
RE: Scoffers
(11-11-2014 07:33 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Pi doesn't equal three.

The only two ways to "resolve" that is to either
  • Say "Who cares? They were rounding!" (in which case, why not round the circumference to 31 or 32 instead of 30?), or
  • Say that the handbredth used to measure the diameter and circumference were measured using two different hands (in which case, why does the infallible Bible use imperfect measurement systems?)

The world was non-Euclidean in old testament times Big Grin

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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11-11-2014, 07:43 AM
RE: Scoffers
(10-11-2014 11:39 PM)FearKnowledge Wrote:  Back then there wasn't a way to atone for sins other than death. Until jesus came died on the cross so no one would have to die for their sins.

Ever wonder why God sat around for 4,000 years demanding burnt offerings and then decided it was time to give people a way to atone for their sins?

What looks like amazing salvation to you looks like a post hoc justification of tacking one religion onto another to a skeptic.


(10-11-2014 11:39 PM)FearKnowledge Wrote:  You call yourself a monkey? We are the greatest species that we know of to this day. Cognitive thinking, reasoning, emotions, etc.

Technically, we are apes, as far as taxonomy goes. Evolution or not, that's the category we are in. Also, other apes display cognitive thinking, reasoning, and emotions; just not to the degree that we do.


(10-11-2014 11:39 PM)FearKnowledge Wrote:  And I'm sorry but you say Christians don't have any evidence.

You don't. There is no evidence God exists that doesn't require you to presuppose his existence in the first place. If you feel I'm wrong, please, provide this evidence.


(10-11-2014 11:39 PM)FearKnowledge Wrote:  Well scientists have yet to prove the big bang and don't get me started on evolution. So many holes that are still yet to be filled.

Well, there is evidence that those things happened. Lots of it. Yes, there are holes in our understanding of these two things, but that doesn't make them wrong. When you plug those holes with God, you're just putting up a God of the Gaps argument, which isn't even remotely compelling.
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11-11-2014, 07:53 AM
RE: Scoffers
(10-11-2014 10:10 PM)Nintentacle Wrote:  "There shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

Edit: There. This thread proved the passage right.

...well it has been a quiet day without our bi-daily new delusional, uneducated Creationist who is going to strike fear into our hearts and bring us to the lawd jesus cuhrist himself for judgement.

Child,

You are so far off the trail of reality, I won't even bother to drag you around by your ear, and beat you with the knowledge stick. But a few facts for your consideration on your inevitable way out the door...

-Jesus is a fabrication
-The OT was a complete fabrication and put together by Judaen Priests around 550 BCE
-Noah, Moses, Adam and eve etc never existed, fact.
-Shroud of Turin is a medieval prop used in Easter celebrations and is dated 14th century.
-The NT is so full of pseudepigrapha, interpolations, parables and allegorical writings, that once you remove all of that, and sift through what is left, there isn't enough of it left over in which to wipe ones ass...which is all it is good for.

Now go...seek knowledge, for faith is a failed method of epistemology and has no place in a thinking man's introspective tool box.

Faith - the belief in something without evidence.

Delusion: an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder. A belief held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary.

Religion - The embracement of delusion.


I won't even bother challenging you to a debate, publically intellectually eviscerating the challenged and emotionally broken just isn't right.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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11-11-2014, 07:54 AM
RE: Scoffers
(10-11-2014 10:10 PM)Nintentacle Wrote:  Edit: There. This thread proved the passage right.

It "proves it right" in the same way I'm "proven right" if I accuse you of being in denial and then you tell me I'm wrong. Seriously, read that passage again:


(10-11-2014 10:10 PM)Nintentacle Wrote:  "There shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

Now, take than in the light that Paul believed that he would see the return of Christ in his life time and that Jesus told some people that they wouldn't die before he returned.

That's a pretty tall order, and... it didn't happen. When you have demonstrably false claims in a religious text, you're going to need to have some way to hand wave that crap away, or people will stop believing. Thus, I present you with the self-fulfilling prophesy. That part was added to the Bible, because eventually, people were going to wonder when these imminent prophesies were going to start being fulfilled.

When a person makes unsubstantiated claims about magicians and then tells you that there will be people who don't believe in this magician without having seen him, that's not surprising. It's like me telling you I can turn invisible, but only when no one is looking. Do you believe me? Didn't think so, scoffer.
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11-11-2014, 08:05 AM (This post was last modified: 11-11-2014 08:11 AM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: Scoffers
The Bible claims that Jesus made the following comment:

Matthew 16:28

“Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

Jesus also advised against going to court over someone who steals something and also told people not to store up stocks or reserves for the future. Clearly, he thought the end was very near.

Likewise, Paul advised followers not to marry and that the end time was near. In this scripture he obviously believes that some of the people he is talking to will still be alive at the second coming.

I Thessalonians 4: 16-18

“For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.”

The obvious fact is that the second coming was not forthcoming at that time, or even close to being near. The 2000-year delay is a strong piece of evidence that Christianity is a failed religion.

The following quote from Stephen L. Harris, Professor Emeritus of Humanities and Religious Studies at California State University- Sacramento, completes this point with a devastating argument. Remember that Jesus was a Jew who had no intention to deviate from the Hebrew scriptures:

“Jesus did not accomplish what Israel’s prophets said the Messiah was commissioned to do: He did not deliver the covenant people from their Gentile enemies, reassemble those scattered in the Diaspora, restore the Davidic kingdom, or establish universal peace (cf.Isa. 9:6–7; 11:7–12:16, etc.). Instead of freeing Jews from oppressors and thereby fulfilling God’s ancient promises—for land, nationhood, kingship, and blessing—Jesus died a “shameful” death, defeated by the very political powers the Messiah was prophesied to overcome. Indeed, the Hebrew prophets did not foresee that Israel’s savior would be executed as a common criminal by Gentiles, making Jesus’ crucifixion a “stumbling block” to scripturally literate Jews. (1 Cor.1:23)”

Jesus’ immediate followers, mostly his 12 disciples, probably did not immediately identify this failure, because after Jesus’ body was likely stolen and concealed, a rumor spread that Jesus had been resurrected from the dead. A sense of optimism overcame their grief about his execution and renewed some hope that he was a true messiah. If they had known then that there was to be no return in the near or long-term future, they likely would have abandoned any further activity. Despite this resurgence in their faith, they never agreed with Paul’s concept of Jesus as being divine. Anything written in the Bible to suggest that they did is probably a result of later editing by some of Paul’s followers. Such a belief would have been an exceptional departure from the Jewish faith.

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"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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11-11-2014, 08:25 AM
RE: Scoffers
(11-11-2014 08:05 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Jesus’ immediate followers, mostly his 12 disciples, probably did not immediately identify this failure, because after Jesus’ body was likely stolen and concealed, a rumor spread that Jesus had been resurrected from the dead. A sense of optimism overcame their grief about his execution and renewed some hope that he was a true messiah.

So, like this, then? Makes sense.
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11-11-2014, 08:31 AM
RE: Scoffers
(11-11-2014 08:25 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(11-11-2014 08:05 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Jesus’ immediate followers, mostly his 12 disciples, probably did not immediately identify this failure, because after Jesus’ body was likely stolen and concealed, a rumor spread that Jesus had been resurrected from the dead. A sense of optimism overcame their grief about his execution and renewed some hope that he was a true messiah.

So, like this, then? Makes sense.

Laugh out load

Facepalm

the depth of people's gullibility and stupidity will never cease to amaze me.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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11-11-2014, 08:48 AM
RE: Scoffers
(11-11-2014 08:05 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  The obvious fact is that the second coming was not forthcoming at that time, or even close to being near. The 2000-year delay is a strong piece of evidence that Christianity is a failed religion.
Actually, using the Bible itself, it can be shown that the second coming occurred almost 2000 years ago http://theheathensguide.com/late-party/ - (Either that or it's just more contradictions, and we know Christians don't want to concede that!)

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11-11-2014, 08:55 AM
RE: Scoffers
(11-11-2014 08:31 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  the depth of people's gullibility and stupidity will never cease to amaze me.

Dear Leader: "Guys! Good news! I know it looks like the prophesy failed, but I just had a private, non-verifiable revelation that said that the prophesy has been modified post hoc. So, when you think about it, it's like it never failed! Srsly!"

Parishioner #1: "Sounds legit. I know I feel better just blindly accepting this."

Rest of group: Yes Yes Yes
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