Scottish Independance ahead in Poll
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11-09-2014, 01:48 PM
RE: Scottish Independance ahead in Poll
(09-09-2014 04:25 AM)DLJ Wrote:  They are going to need hundreds of thousands of new soldier to patrol the border to keep out the English.

Dodgy

Yeah, the HOARDS, I repeat HOARDS of people who will flock to the cloudy rainy moors will be impossible to keep away.

Weeping

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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11-09-2014, 02:17 PM
RE: Scottish Independance ahead in Poll
(11-09-2014 01:30 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(11-09-2014 12:51 PM)cjlr Wrote:  It would be obliged to join first ERM and then the Eurozone if the convergence criteria were met - the treaties are quite explicit. Only the UK and Denmark have formal opt-outs.

And if they don't? They get a strongly-worded letter? The European Union is not known to turn qualifying nations down, regardless of currency.

Not agreeing to the accession protocols means they're not qualified...

Joining the EU means joining the eurozone, unless an exception is negotiated. If it seems that Scotland would not act in good faith to fulfill the conditions it would have signed, they won't be let in.

It's not like the EU would have any particular reason to want Scotland in (the financial sector would evacuate to London in a heartbeat). And from a Scottish perspective, there's always the EFTA.

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11-09-2014, 02:39 PM
RE: Scottish Independance ahead in Poll
(11-09-2014 02:17 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Not agreeing to the accession protocols means they're not qualified...

Joining the EU means joining the eurozone, unless an exception is negotiated. If it seems that Scotland would not act in good faith to fulfill the conditions it would have signed, they won't be let in.

It's not like the EU would have any particular reason to want Scotland in (the financial sector would evacuate to London in a heartbeat). And from a Scottish perspective, there's always the EFTA.

The economic situation of each individual country that applied for the European Union is hardly reviewed or considered by the asshats in Brussels. Why do you think so many financial risks, like Ireland, Greece, Italy, Portugal, and Spain are part of it? It's certainly not because Brussels cares about the economic quality of said states.

As for the Euro? The Union cannot afford to negotiate because of the stagnation of the Euro due to massive amounts of austerity. There are already rumblings within the current members about ridding themselves of the Euro because of how unstable it is proving to be.

Now I don't think a unified currency is a bad idea. But the method of which the EU introduces the currencies, especially for economic liabilities, is less than hopeful.

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11-09-2014, 02:42 PM
RE: Scottish Independance ahead in Poll
(11-09-2014 02:39 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(11-09-2014 02:17 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Not agreeing to the accession protocols means they're not qualified...

Joining the EU means joining the eurozone, unless an exception is negotiated. If it seems that Scotland would not act in good faith to fulfill the conditions it would have signed, they won't be let in.

It's not like the EU would have any particular reason to want Scotland in (the financial sector would evacuate to London in a heartbeat). And from a Scottish perspective, there's always the EFTA.

The economic situation of each individual country that applied for the European Union is hardly reviewed or considered by the asshats in Brussels. Why do you think so many financial risks, like Ireland, Greece, Italy, Portugal, and Spain are part of it? It's certainly not because Brussels cares about the economic quality of said states.

As for the Euro? The Union cannot afford to negotiate because of the stagnation of the Euro due to massive amounts of austerity. There are already rumblings within the current members about ridding themselves of the Euro because of how unstable it is proving to be.

That's not to say that I don't think a unified currency is a bad idea. But the method of which the EU introduces the currencies, especially for economic liabilities, is less than hopeful.

A unified currency is a horrible idea and we have seen this play out over the last 8 years. Having limited to no control over your currency allows a situation like Spain to arise.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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11-09-2014, 02:44 PM
RE: Scottish Independance ahead in Poll
(11-09-2014 02:42 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  A unified currency is a horrible idea and we have seen this play out over the last 8 years. Having limited to no control over your currency allows a situation like Spain to arise.

A unified currency is a terrific idea when implemented right. The reason the Euro is failing is because of how rapidly the EU was formed -- with officials ignoring the risks of the numerous invited nations.

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11-09-2014, 02:47 PM
RE: Scottish Independance ahead in Poll
(11-09-2014 02:44 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(11-09-2014 02:42 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  A unified currency is a horrible idea and we have seen this play out over the last 8 years. Having limited to no control over your currency allows a situation like Spain to arise.

A unified currency is a terrific idea when implemented right. The reason the Euro is failing is because of how rapidly the EU was formed -- with officials ignoring the risks of the numerous invited nations.

A unified currency is great as long as it has no external pressure put on it. However as we saw with the banking crisis it is slow to the point of intractable in dealing with such a crisis and makes things much worse.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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11-09-2014, 02:49 PM
RE: Scottish Independance ahead in Poll
(11-09-2014 02:47 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  A unified currency is great as long as it has no external pressure put on it. However as we saw with the banking crisis it is slow to the point of intractable in dealing with such a crisis and makes things much worse.

As I said, because of the errors committed during the formation of the EU. If the more powerful economies were the only ones using the Euro, it would not be such a problem at this point in time.

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11-09-2014, 02:56 PM
RE: Scottish Independance ahead in Poll
(11-09-2014 02:49 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(11-09-2014 02:47 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  A unified currency is great as long as it has no external pressure put on it. However as we saw with the banking crisis it is slow to the point of intractable in dealing with such a crisis and makes things much worse.

As I said, because of the errors committed during the formation of the EU. If the more powerful economies were the only ones using the Euro, it would not be such a problem at this point in time.

Yabbut that would eliminate the need for the Euro as well. It was originally intended to give the European zone the same (or at least comparable) purchasing power to the Americans. In that it worked. However without something like the Fed to run it it is a bureaucratic nightmare when quick decisive leadership is required. However if you strip the membership down to only the top markets it lessens the benefits and still leaves the risks.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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11-09-2014, 02:59 PM
RE: Scottish Independance ahead in Poll
(11-09-2014 02:39 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  The economic situation of each individual country that applied for the European Union is hardly reviewed or considered by the asshats in Brussels.

The economic conditions required for the ERM and eurozone accessions are quite clearly spelled out by binding treaty provisions.

I fail to see why Scotland would be a magical exception because reasons.
(much though the SNP seem to believe it to be)

Before the financial downturn (ie, five or six years ago) there was lots of talk of countries like Poland, Hungary, or Czechia joining the eurozone in the next five years (to say nothing of Denmark or Sweden). Needless to say, that didn't happen.

(11-09-2014 02:39 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Why do you think so many financial risks, like Ireland, Greece, Italy, Portugal, and Spain are part of it? It's certainly not because Brussels cares about the economic quality of said states.

One would assume, given that they are not idiots, that they rather do care about the economic quality of integral members. Because they are the integral members.
(and if that's not the motivition for EU monetary policy, just what is?)

Ireland, Italy, Portugal, and Spain all saw their debt crises begin after the Euro was introduced. The original Euro treaties were in the early 1990s. Core member exchange rates were fixed in 1998. The Euro was introduced from 1999 to 2002.

Expecting people at the time to foresee the events of 2008-2010 is asking rather a lot.

Plus, Greece cooked their books, so there's that.

(11-09-2014 02:39 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  As for the Euro? The Union cannot afford to negotiate because of the stagnation of the Euro due to massive amounts of austerity.

What does that have to do with Scotland?

It's not like the dollar, the pound, and the yen are very hot at the moment...

(11-09-2014 02:39 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  There are already rumblings within the current members about ridding themselves of the Euro because of how unstable it is proving to be.

If that progresses beyond populist vote-whoring I'll eat my hat.

(11-09-2014 02:39 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Now I don't think a unified currency is a bad idea. But the method of which the EU introduces the currencies, especially for economic liabilities, is less than hopeful.

But that's precisely the thing: Scotland is not in a position to dictate the terms of any currency union. Sharing the (UK) pound has been firmly rejected. That leaves them with a new Scottish pound (the going rate was 12:1 for English pounds in 1707), or unilateral adoption of some foreign currency. If they join the EU, they must commit to eventual Euro use. Period.

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11-09-2014, 03:04 PM
RE: Scottish Independance ahead in Poll
(11-09-2014 02:56 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(11-09-2014 02:49 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  As I said, because of the errors committed during the formation of the EU. If the more powerful economies were the only ones using the Euro, it would not be such a problem at this point in time.

Yabbut that would eliminate the need for the Euro as well. It was originally intended to give the European zone the same (or at least comparable) purchasing power to the Americans. In that it worked. However without something like the Fed to run it it is a bureaucratic nightmare when quick decisive leadership is required. However if you strip the membership down to only the top markets it lessens the benefits and still leaves the risks.

Indeed. The financial disparities are not substantively greater between Eurozone members than between the richest and poorest American states (or Canadian provinces).

But there's almost no central control over the Euro as a single currency. And that's been problematic.

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