Scriptural support for universal morality
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14-01-2016, 11:57 AM
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
(14-01-2016 11:48 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Again I do not refute some level of randomness in evolution.

Great! Then we're all agreeing that evolution happens. Thumbsup

(14-01-2016 11:48 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I honestly cannot discuss the particulars you request due to lack of study thus far. My initial point still stands; that evolution is not simply random.

And you're refusing to acknowledge my examples and points. Sad

(14-01-2016 11:48 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  That's all. I am interested in learning more about Darwin's take on evolution, but this just isn't the best source to me. Not that I doubt your own level of understanding at all. Just that I really don't want to stray too far off topic. My fault though.

Sorry I can't really give an educated rebuttal to the specifics you stated due to ignorance.

Peace

As for the rebuttal? You did kind of start this little segway ride. Tongue

That's the great thing about science. You don't have to take any one person's words/writing for it. You can go out and read LOTS of books. Smile

(As in evolution isn't just Dawkins, y'know. Wink )

Hey, we're both blue collar workers. You possibly a builder and me a former Glazier (Window fixer).

If I can get a mental handle around evolution, you're well in with a shot. Wink
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14-01-2016, 12:03 PM
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
(14-01-2016 11:57 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  
(14-01-2016 11:48 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Again I do not refute some level of randomness in evolution.

Great! Then we're all agreeing that evolution happens. Thumbsup

(14-01-2016 11:48 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I honestly cannot discuss the particulars you request due to lack of study thus far. My initial point still stands; that evolution is not simply random.

And you're refusing to acknowledge my examples and points. Sad

(14-01-2016 11:48 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  That's all. I am interested in learning more about Darwin's take on evolution, but this just isn't the best source to me. Not that I doubt your own level of understanding at all. Just that I really don't want to stray too far off topic. My fault though.

Sorry I can't really give an educated rebuttal to the specifics you stated due to ignorance.

Peace

As for the rebuttal? You did kind of start this little segway ride. Tongue

That's the great thing about science. You don't have to take any one person's words/writing for it. You can go out and read LOTS of books. Smile

(As in evolution isn't just Dawkins, y'know. Wink )

Hey, we're both blue collar workers. You possibly a builder and me a former Glazier (Window fixer).

If I can get a mental handle around evolution, you're well in with a shot. Wink
I can't refute or acknowledge what I do not understand.

I don't doubt that evolution is in part random, or that your points are valid. I just can't say one way or another pertaining to the specifics you mentioned.

I appreciate your level of civility and attempt to help with my own understanding.

You used to reglaze old windows, or is that common in new construction where you are from?

Peace
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14-01-2016, 12:08 PM
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
To be honest; the main reason I even mentioned proving that evolution is random is so maybe some might see that they hold to faith in things that support their own agenda without actual proof. Kinda similar to what many accuse me of.

I do enjoy the conversation though.
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14-01-2016, 12:32 PM
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
(14-01-2016 12:08 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  To be honest; the main reason I even mentioned proving that evolution is random is so maybe some might see that they hold to faith in things that support their own agenda without actual proof. Kinda similar to what many accuse me of.

I do enjoy the conversation though.

Totally wrong. No similarity AT ALL.
Science has no "faith" in the Theory of Evolution. Unlike your idiot violent evil god, there are mountains of EVIDENCE for every part of Evolution. There is nothing about it, in 2016, that requires "faith". The fact that you are unaware of what that evidence is, is yet more testimony to your ignorance.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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14-01-2016, 12:50 PM
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
(14-01-2016 12:08 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Kinda similar to what many accuse me of.

I do enjoy the conversation though.

Let's take a look at some of your "conversations", shall we?

(12-01-2016 09:28 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Cherrypicking is when one take a single verse or sentence out of context to fix into a claim. Perhaps to have noticed that I am posting entire chapters or the like. Not really cherry picking. There are hundreds more. If I was cherry picking then that wouldn't be the case.

By ignoring the sections of your quoted books that exhort rape, murder, mutilations and other atrocities, you are in fact cherrypicking.

(12-01-2016 06:21 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(12-01-2016 04:11 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  The bible says stuff, so what?
The Quran says something else, so what?
The Book of Mormon says something else, so what?
You imply that they are wholly different. They are not.

The New Testament says that Christ was the son of god. The quran says he was not. I can't answer for the others, but I would call that a pretty important difference.

(12-01-2016 09:54 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I don't feel the need for anything. It's just been made really obvious to me.

Your personal revelation means nothing to anyone but you. You could be lying, deluded or mistaken. Show me some evidence.

(12-01-2016 10:12 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  No. I try to stick to core scriptures. The exception is the book of Enoch. I will eventually study other religious texts but for now I am sticking to the core texts as a basis for telling what religions are actually of the twelve tribes, or actually faithful to God. In order for me to do that I cannot deviate from core scripture. That would be like basing the truth of Christianity on the words of a hypocrite. Not very accurate.

CHERRYPICKING

(13-01-2016 01:08 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  The book of Enoch or the words of John the Baptist may not be considered scripture to many sects or religions, but for some they indeed are.

CHERRYPICKING

Even better, by arbitrarily deciding what books you consider core, you are in fact, creating your own god. Thumbsup

(12-01-2016 10:13 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I mean not in line with other peaceable scriptures
CHERRYPICKING

(13-01-2016 11:23 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Just because God predestined all doesn't mean he doesn't wholly control it, or that free will and man don't play a part in their own destiny.

If he predestined it, that would mean he CONTROLLED IT!!!

(13-01-2016 11:36 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Core scriptures...the basis that further, sometimes flawed beliefs of man generally stem with the addition of greed and knowing flawed interpretation. Not that these scriptures them selves haven't been manipulated or added to, namely the Torah.

Do you believe this shit you are posting? In one post you claim the core scriptures are the word of god and in the next you admit that the books have been manipulated.

(13-01-2016 09:00 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  You still seem to think I'm talking about organized religion. I'm not. The determining factors are if it is peaceable or divides faithful. And if it promotes violence or not. If it promotes prejudice or equality.

The only things I have read that are from core scriptures are things in parenthesis, brackets, and crucifixes. Even then, many times it is truly an attempt to explain a point in the verse, but is also the means of which division, pride, greed, and violence are attempted to be justified. When I find such I study it and the context from which it was applied.

CHERRYPICKING

And, if you utilize the texts of a religion as evidence for your beliefs, you are going to be associated with that religion.

You are either delusional or a POE.

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Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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14-01-2016, 01:00 PM
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
(14-01-2016 12:08 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  To be honest; the main reason I even mentioned proving that evolution is random is so maybe some might see that they hold to faith in things that support their own agenda without actual proof. Kinda similar to what many accuse me of.

I do enjoy the conversation though.
The problem you so oblivious keep missing is you're telling someone to do something they don't accept nor have faith in... because that's not the view they have

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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14-01-2016, 02:26 PM
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
(14-01-2016 01:00 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(14-01-2016 12:08 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  To be honest; the main reason I even mentioned proving that evolution is random is so maybe some might see that they hold to faith in things that support their own agenda without actual proof. Kinda similar to what many accuse me of.

I do enjoy the conversation though.
The problem you so oblivious keep missing is you're telling someone to do something they don't accept nor have faith in... because that's not the view they have
No, I get that. But some do and have said similar, even if they don't speak now.
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14-01-2016, 05:07 PM
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
(13-01-2016 09:08 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(13-01-2016 05:46 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Here you changed the goal posts and MISSED THE ENTIRE POINT.
The POINT was, your stupid god CAUSED A VIOLENT (ie USED VIOLENCE, and sanctioned it), thing to happen, which he had under his control to STOP, (according to you)

Do try to follow along your OWN thread.
It is you that is utterly foolish here.
The example totally REFUTES your bullshit, pops.
Get help soon.
You're not doing well here.
You're a crappy apologist.
Yes he did cause the destruction of a wholly bent people that had turned from the right path who sinned in every conceivable way. You say he could have stopped it. I say people could have turns from their sin as repeatedly advised. They didn't believe the word of GOD. Their destruction, like many other cases of destruction of a wholly wrong doing people could have easily been averted, and was a lesson for future generations as well as a better chance for those who weren't destroyed.

It's funny how people will excuse death of entire species as acts of nature that are simply the way it is, but when a natural disaster happens they wanna act like there is some bad guy. There is no difference. Evolution and nature are by GOD.

Yet more unsupported assertions. Facepalm

Is there no end to your delusion?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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14-01-2016, 06:58 PM
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
(12-01-2016 02:23 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Many here have heard me rant about the selfless conscience, God head, God helm, Christ consciousness, Krishna consciousness, and other terms that I claim are a reference to the holy spirit, and the conscience that all have to one degree or another. I will start by quoting scriptures of differing religions that pertain to such. This in no way will be a definitive, full, example of all findings. Just a start.

I look forward to questions, comments, and rebuttals that refute my findings. Thank you all for allowing this. I hope I placed this topic in the right section.
Peace.

Romans 2 (KJV) - ሮሜ
14: For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one anotherWink
16: In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. Romans 2 (KJV) - ሮሜ
17: Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
18: And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;
19: And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
20: An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. Romans 2 (KJV) - ሮሜ
21: Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22: Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
23: Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? Romans 2 (KJV) - ሮሜ
24: For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
25: For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26: Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? Romans 2 (KJV) - ሮሜ
27: And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28: For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

This next one doesn't specifically state anything about the conscience, but does speak of violence not being right in any form making it relevant to my argument on universal morality.


And they (i.e. the heathen) shall be cast into the judgement of fire,
And shall perish in wrath and in grievous judgement for ever.

10. And the righteous shall arise from their sleep,
And wisdom shall arise and be given unto them.

[11. And after that the roots of unrighteousness shall be cut off, and the sinners shall be destroyed by the sword . . . shall be cut off from the blasphemers in every place, and those who plan violence and those who commit blasphemy shall perish by the sword.]

18. And now I tell you, my sons, and show you
The paths of righteousness and the paths of violence.
Yea, I will show them to you again
That ye may know what will come to pass.

19. And now, hearken unto me, my sons,
And walk in the paths of righteousness,
And walk not in the paths of violence;
For all who walk in the paths of unrighteousness shall perish for ever.'

Book of Enoch xci

More to do with unity of Faith and not division.

Micah 4 (KJV) - ሚክያስ
1: But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
2: And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. Micah 4 (KJV) - ሚክያስ
3: And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
4: But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it. Micah 4 (KJV) - ሚክያስ
5: For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever.
6: In that day, saith the LORD, will I assemble her that halteth, and I will gather her that is driven out, and her that I have afflicted;
7: And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a strong nation: and the LORD shall reign over them in mount Zion from henceforth, even for ever. Micah 4 (KJV) - ሚክያስ
8: And thou, O tower of the flock, the strong hold of the daughter of Zion, unto thee shall it come, even the first dominion; the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem.
9: Now why dost thou cry out aloud? is there no king in thee? is thy counsellor perished? for pangs have taken thee as a woman in travail.
10: Be in pain, and labour to bring forth, O daughter of Zion, like a woman in travail: for now shalt thou go forth out of the city, and thou shalt dwell in the field, and thou shalt go even to Babylon; there shalt thou be delivered; there the LORD shall redeem thee from the hand of thine enemies. Micah 4 (KJV) - ሚክያስ
11: Now also many nations are gathered against thee, that say, Let her be defiled, and let our eye look upon Zion.
12: But they know not the thoughts of the LORD, neither understand they his counsel: for he shall gather them as the sheaves into the floor.
13: Arise and thresh, O daughter of Zion: for I will make thine horn iron, and I will make thy hoofs brass: and thou shalt beat in pieces many people: and I will consecrate their gain unto the LORD, and their substance unto the Lord of the whole earth.

More on violence;

Jonah 3 (KJV) - ዮናስ
1: And the word of the LORD came unto Jonah the second time, saying,
2: Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee.
3: So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days' journey. Jonah 3 (KJV) - ዮናስ
4: And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.
5: So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them.
6: For word came unto the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, and he laid his robe from him, and covered him with sackcloth, and sat in ashes. Jonah 3 (KJV) - ዮናስ
7: And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water:
8: But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands. Jonah 3 (KJV) - ዮናስ
9: Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?
10: And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

Proclamation of one God and prophesy of John the Baptist; ← 03 – Iušamin23 – The Pitfall of Impure Women →
22 – A Proclamation of War in the World (John Predicts the Coming of Muhammad)
Posted on February 6, 2012 by James F. McGrath
John teaches in the nights,
John in the evenings of the nights.
John teaches in the nights:
“A proclamation of war in the world.”
and he says,

“Oh, they come standing in evil.
Buy a way for yourselves!
Oh, they come practicing usury.
Buy a way for yourselves!
Oh, they come lying in fragrant wreaths
Buy a way for yourselves!
Oh, they come dressing in roses and silk !
Buy a way for yourselves!
Oh, they come lying down in flattery [literally “in beauty of face”]
Buy a way for yourselves!

Because the chosen and righteous sons rise up (and leave earth),
the voice of life will not draw near in the world.
Sacramental meals/masses will be offered,
Without putting on a clean turban.
Living baptism will be performed,
Without the transcendent/sublime sign”
When John said these things, Joseph and Benjamin spoke, and Miriai said to John in Jerusalem,
“I adjure you, John, by the Life that you worship
After that, I adjure you, John, by the dawn of the day whose name is dear
Will chosen and righteous sons rise up (= depart the world),
and the voice of Life not draw near in the world?
Will sacramental meals/masses be offered
without putting on a clean turban?
Will a living baptism performed
without the sublime/transcendent sign?”

When she said these things, (Jacob and Benjamin and) Mariai,
John said to them in Jerusalem
“When all the priests are slain and will be no more
And the sons of Israel are slain,
Ahmed the Arab son of Arbuia son of divorce son of Arbuia Samuel son of the bondwoman of Abdullah will be born
He calls to the world
He removes all Mandaean places of worship,
and mosques increase in the world
He removes stability (or orthodox institutions) and peace,
and deception and sin increase in the world
He removes weddings and invitations
He removes faith from the world
He joins to ritual uncleanness,
he does not diminish (it).
No bell sounds in the world, and they do not ring
All the sons of the lie, of falsehood, of wickedness in the world
commit adultery – they commit adultery and they steal
They practice usury
and they give one and take nine
They falsify their scales
they increase their measure
some of them fornicate their heads
Some of them loose their hair
some of them loose their hair
some of them dye their beards with henna
some of them dye their beards with henna
and they stand up and degrade their mosques.
When they see a man putting on a girdle [of the characteristic sort worn by Mandaean priests]
Their whole body/stature is clothed in great sickness.
They stand questioning and they say, “Who is your prophet ?
Tell us, who is your prophet?
And tell us, Which is your Scripture ?
Tell us, which is your Scripture ?
and tell us whom you worship.”
They do not know and they do not understand.
(They are) accursed and disgraceful.
They do not know and they do not understand.
Our Lord, the King of Light on high,
He is ONE.

Life is victorious

I will return later to post more and answer questions. Note; what I have posted thus far is out of notes I have attained over the past few months. Just a start really.

Thanks for reading

Peace

The bible is too full of contradictions, fiction, forgery, fantasy, pseudepigrapha, interpolations, allegorical writings, and parables to use as the validation to anything. Might as well quote Dr Seuss as for the true morality of man. What else you got? See how easy that wall of text you posted was refuted? no reason to thank me, it is what I do.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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14-01-2016, 08:06 PM (This post was last modified: 14-01-2016 08:17 PM by popsthebuilder.)
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
The bible is too full of contradictions, fiction, forgery, fantasy, pseudepigrapha, interpolations, allegorical writings, and parables to use as the validation to anything. Might as well quote Dr Seuss as for the true morality of man. What else you got? See how easy that wall of text you posted was refuted? no reason to thank me, it is what I do.
[/quote]
The whole point is that it isn't only the bible.

The contradiction between the Torah and the new covenant are actually spoken of in the new covenant at least. Making them not so much contradictions, but differences based on the different era. As far as fiction, forgery, and fantasy are concerned; I'm sure you have proof to back up those claims, right?
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